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Looking forward for a response :P

20446 -- archive password

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There is a conference this week at the University of Southampton's Centre
for the Foetal Origins of Adult Diseases.

The conference program is at:

http://www.foad2003.org/Programme.pdf

The BBC is reporting the conference. Here is their report on how foetal
experiences can affect adult incomes (courageous to make that leap, but
that's what happens when you let a journalist through the doors. At least
the writer is quoted as saying that 'An unbalanced maternal diet can
increase the mother's stress hormone levels' and this provides part of the
link) 

[More ...]

A few minutes ago I finished watching the first half-hour episode of the
BBC's 'Walking with Cavemen'. It's a mixed bag; here are some of the
positives:

1. excellent background to the causes of the climate change that
transformed the African jungles into savanna and how this transformation
enabled the evolutionary trajectory of Australopithecus to naturally
select phenotypes that, eventually, became Homo sapiens sapiens. This
part of the program made it abundantly clear how the many parallel
branches of hominids arose 

[More ...]

I found a great article supporting something Art Devany said years ago. He
wrote that a "high energy flux" is key to health. Basically, high energy
flux is both expending a large number of calories each day and consuming a
large number of calories each day. The link to the article:

http://thefactsaboutfitness.com/research/age.htm

The article also talks about the decline in metabolism with age is
apparently related to energy flux, not necessarily muscle mass.

On a lighter note, did anyone else get crushed by dalight savings time? I
swear, it took me 4 or 5 days until I felt normal again. I bet the authors
of "Lights Out" would have a filed day with this subject.

I think the point about motivation is a crucial one. Especially as people
age, there is surely a decresed motivation for physical activity. Yet if
you look at hunter-gatherer societies, you see people in their 70s that are
still physically active for hours each day. If you just recommend to
older people, "stay active", it's difficult to see how this will have any
effect. 

[More ...]

Something occurred to me while chasing a pair of ducks through the woods
that had gotten loose. I sometimes do all-out 30 second sprints
alternating with 30 second jogging, around five cycles. But chasing
those ducks got me more out of breath than I've ever been while working
out. Having that external goal for motivation seems to have made me push
harder than I've been able to do when it's artificial exercise. Having
more vital reasons for exerting may have been an advantage our
pleistocene ancestors had over us in terms of acheiving a high degree of
fitness.
Hilary McClure
 

[More ...]

You'll see a couple of pictures of me at the gym at
http://www.evfit.com/200206.htm and http://www.evfit.com/200207.htm and my
son is at http://www.evfit.com/huw.htm

I'll get more up when we get the hang of the new camera, the scanner and
FrontPage - a very un-Paleo set of hoops to have to go through to achieve
one's aims!

Keith

Does anyone think that dancing tends to get overlooked as an imporant type
of exercise? I have no research to back this up, but I often read about
people in old age who are able to susatin their vigor through dancing. You
don't her about a lot of 70-year olds who stay in shape by jogging.
However, I do read about ballet dance, and some martial arts which could be
thought of as slow dance, keeping older people in shape. 

[More ...]

I found this link which has some generally good information but at the
bottom of the page is some really great stuff.
Enjoy!
http://www.lef.org/news/nutrition/2003/03/13/DLPT/0000-7566-KEYWORD.Missing.html

My guess is it's more likely that they were going for the omega-3 fatty
acids which are found at highest concentrations in organ meats, brain etc.
Other hunters such as lions do the same thing. As well, skeletal muscle may
be very lean and as such is avoided by hunter gatherers since the
processing of so much protein to provide glycogen imposes a heavy load on
the hunter gatherer's own liver.

In regards to last month's post about the subject, I thought this was
interesting:

"Consumption of "snacks" would occur throughout the day, with hunters often
removing the liver from a "kill", and eating it on the spot, often raw."

I'm not exactly sure what is in animal liver, but I'm guessing there is
glycogen.

Mann, Neil (2000): Dietary lean red meat and human evolution. European
Journal of Nutrition, 39, pg. 73.

Title
A brief review of the archaeological evidence for Palaeolithic and
Neolithic subsistence
Source
European Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 56(12) Dec 2002
Author
Richards MP.

[snipped] Abstract
Knowledge of our ancestor's diets is becoming increasingly important in
evolutionary medicine, as researchers have argued that we have evolved to
specific type of 'Palaeolithic' diet, and many modern nutritional disorders
relate to the mismatch between the diet to which we have evolved, and the
newer agricultural-based 'Neolithic' diets.
However, what is the archaeological evidence for pre-agricultural diets.
This paper briefly introduces the three lines of evidence we have for
Palaeolithic and Neolithic 

[More ...]

I'm a little surprised at the discussion of human's desire for sweetness.
I would have thought that fruit trees signal ripeness with signals which
appeal to the senses of primates like us. It's peach season now where I
live, and I can't help but notice colour changes, delicious scents and of
course the gradual change from hard sour flesh to soft sweet flesh. 

[More ...]

This is one of the few "good" things I have seen go through the very busy
supertraining list. I have not looked back through the previous posts to
see what prompted this response but it still strikes me that an evolutionary
approach to health and fitness is unique and considered "fringe".

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:50:33 -0500
From: "James Krieger" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Evolution, endogenous retrovirus, and pseudogenes 

[More ...]

Though there isn't much about exercise, I found "Human Diet: Its Origin and
Evolution" (2002) edited by Peter S. Ungar and Mark F. Teaford to be a very
good read. It gives many perspectives on the Paleo diet and its role in
fighting modern health problems. A summary is at amazon.com.

On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:56,
sean mcbride <[log in to unmask]>
wrote on the subject of sweetness:

> I don't know if you are familiar with Aboriginal
> wild foods but not too many of them are sweet
> as we are used to. I think we developed a taste
> for sweetness due to the lack of sweet things
> in the environment. 

[More ...]

Ming wrote on Saturday, February 15, 2003 8:34 AM
>
>My personal experience eating paleo and Atkins type diets
>was one of misery .... The NHE made me feel lousy too.
>... It's only when I allowed rice and some other carbs back
>into the diet that I feel good again.
>
>My question to the people here is, how much variation
>can we expect ... between people? And how much
>does genetic imprinting based on one's early
>diet affect one's metabolism later in life?
>
>Just because some Inuits lived off whale
>meat and caribou doesn't mean everyone else 

[More ...]

My personal experience eating paleo and Atkins type diets was one of misery.
For over a year, I restricted severely my non-fruit and non-vegetable carb
intake for a year and suffered easy fatigue, difficulty sleeping and low
body mass.

It's only when I allowed rice and some other carbs back into the diet that I
feel good again. 

[More ...]

Robb, Rick, Bob and Robert all make points I agree with. I would just add
that Rob Faigin focuses on the neuroendocrine responses to different
exercise types (even specific exercises), recovery and different
maconutrient intakes. Faigin's recommendations concerning carbs need to
be read in the light of his efforts to enhance the beneficial hormonal
response for the best of health; this means he distinguishes between
fructose and glucose and between carbs from starch, carbs from vegetables
and carbs from fruit - broadly speaking. His recommendations for
occasional carb loading should be seen as recommendations to maximize the
many beneficial effects 

[More ...]

I see where there are a few posts regarding post-workout meals and DeVany's
take on this. This leads me to an important point I would like to make.

Is it possible we are all taking Devany's suggestions too seriously? In
other words, even though Art appears to have some good ideas, where's the
corresponding research? I have not seen Art citing any empirical studies
to support his hypotheses. I made sure to list all the necessary citations
in my book, and Loren Cordain lists a ton of research in his. So far, it
seems Art has mentioned very few, if 

[More ...]

Matt Metzgar wrote:
[snip]
>You claim carbohydrates aren't needed for energy, yet the NHE cycles carbs
in. If they aren't
>necessary, why not go lower-carb all the time? My idea is that a certain
level of carbohydrate intake is needed for energy >in the modern world.
Whether you get that through a higher daily intake of carbs, or by
carb-loading every few days (NHE), >may not be important. What I am saying
is that some minimum level of carbohydrates seems necessary for optimal
functioning, >and that level can be difficult to obtain through Paleo eating
(primarily due to the large 

[More ...]

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:16:20 -0500
From: Matt Metzgar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: NHE

>>Keith,

>>Thanks for your comments. I am skeptical about
>>the fat-burner/sugar-burner dichotomy. It
>>just sounds a bit too unscientific for me.
>>Sure, the body can run on different types
>>of fuel, but I doubt it's a black-and-white
>>issue.
>>
<snip>
>>I think modern people may have more of
>>a year-round need for carbohydrates (for
>>energy) due to the increased hours of
>>activity. 

[More ...]

Robert Wolf wrote:
> Keith-Thank you for your on going discussion of NHE. It has been very
> effective for me as well. I am curious what the lists experience has been
> with regards to post work out nutrition specifically ingesting carbs post
> workout. Art and Rob Faigan argue against it but John berardi (and
> seemingly everyone else around!) argue for protein/carbs post work out. I
> have noticed when I did this I simply did not feel good. A post work out
> meal of protein and fat predominantly left me feeling great...not so the
> 

[More ...]

One of my favorite bloggers, Clay Shirky, just produced a short essay on
power law distributions and weblogs:

http://www.shirky.com/writings/powerlaw_weblog.html

In it he references a number of links to recent research and books that
help explain why power law distributions exist. If, like me, you maintain a
list EV-ish bookmarks, this essay will have you adding several entries to
your Favorites. 

[More ...]

Just living, breathing & drinking water will put a huge amount of toxins
in your body. A recent study by Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New
York, in collaboration with the Environmental Working Group and
Commonweal, found an average of 91 industrial compounds, pollutants, and
other chemicals in the blood and urine of nine volunteers, with a total of
167 chemicals found in the group. The people tested do not work with
chemicals on the job and do not live near an industrial facility. 

[More ...]

My apologies for the sloppy English in my previous post. I was off to a
7:00am start for rowing training, so I threw my response together a bit
too hastily.

This brings me to the point of this second post: maintaining energy levels
on a low-carb diet. I mentioned that I had no problems in this respect.
Let me give you now a couple of examples. 

[More ...]

A question: In Faigan's NHE, carb-loading takes place every 3 or 4 days. I
am interested in trying this, but I would like a better theoretical base.
Would this type of situation have happened in the Paleo world? In other
words, would HGs have somehow naturally carb-loaded every few days?

My only idea is that when they were not successful on the hunt (and
therefore had little protein and fat to consume), they would eat mainly
frutis, vegetables, nuts, & berries, and therefore "carb-load" in a sense. 

[More ...]

There is a profile of Robb together with a pic on the same site that
carries his article on CRAN.

Check out the relaxed poise at

http://girevikmagazine.com/Girevik/First/profile.htm

Keith

Can I toss this idea in for comment? I'd be really interested in your
views.

Where people write about Evolutionary Fitness or the Paleo lifestyle
(usually diet) and our human ancestors, they often refer to eras or date
ranges to indicate a benchmark 'Golden Age' which epitomizes most fully
the distinguishing features they want to emphasize. 

[More ...]

Much thanks Rob!

I do have a couple of followups --

I did note that the word "book" was mentioned in your intro as well as by
the good Dr himself late in the interview. Did you get any sense as to when
this tome would be finished? I just had to ask.

There is a passage in one of Art's answers: 

[More ...]

I just wanted to alert the list that Art Devany has a new interview here:

http://girevikmagazine.com/six/interviewdevany.htm

and an article by yours truly:

http://girevikmagazine.com/six/calrestriction.htm

Enjoy!

Babies' Mental Delay Tied to Moms' Vegan Diet:

http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34&in=health&cat=diet_and_nutrition

A good journalist’s overview of the complex causes of present epidemic of
obesity, the commercial interests of the fast food industry - and the muck
put they in mass food in the interests of the processors rather than the
consumers, a reference to hunter-gatherer food (sadly wrong), the need for
more exercise, is to be found at: 

[More ...]

Do you know of any posters or 2003 wall calendars, suitable for display in
my office, which exemplify human evolution? I don't want anything too
subtle (such as a mother and child painting which depicts human bonding,
nurturing etc) as I want to use the display to stimulate interest and
discussion. There is the evolvefish.com product range, including their
2003 calendar - but I don't want to have my nose punched in: 

[More ...]

Back on 21 August 2002 I alerted you to the then-recent film Atanarjuat.
I saw it a month ago and here are some observations. I don’t go to the
cinema often enough to call the following a ‘review’ and, in any case, I
focus here on what I see as most relevant to Evolutionary Fitness – and
plenty was! 

[More ...]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but Loren Cordain has put
up a website to supplement his book. It contains research papers that can
be downloaded:

www.thepaleodiet.com

The New Scientist website, www.newscientist.com, tells us that the US
edition of that magazine has been available weekly since October 2002.
This high quality, critical news magazine gives prominence to discoveries
and insights in human evolution, human health, diet and complexity. It
rarely covers exercise, but – for our purposes – makes up by publishing a
lot of material which is _implicitly_ rather than _explicitly_ stimulating
and informative to the Evolutionary Fitness thinker. 

[More ...]

The FAQ for this list has been up-dated and is available on line at
http://www.evfit.com/faq.htm

This FAQ is a living, breathing document. If you would like to add to it
or suggest enhancements (bearing in mind the need to keep the overall FAQ
down to a manageable size), please e-mail me at [log in to unmask]

My apologies for the period of some months during which the FAQ was not
available on line. 

[More ...]

Here's kind of a nifty nutrient calculator. Click on any header to re-sort
the data from least to most for whatever nutrient you're interested
n. --But several non-paleo foods are here, too.

http://www.newtreatments.org/Nutrients/Acidity

Theola

Am I wrong or doesn't the *ash* content of a food (as per the USDA Nutrient
Database) reflect pH? Maybe I'm confusing this with something else.

Keith, there's still hope for your wife. :-) If I hadn't done the Eades'
Protein Power with good success over 2 yrs ago, I may never have found and
gone Paleo. It was a logical progression for me. It was only after I went
Paleo that I got a copy of the Eades' LifePlan book. Their most stringent
level adheres pretty well to Paleo. Since she likes the Eades' diet and
wants to stick 

[More ...]

Lots to comment upon here and so many questions to ask!

1. Acid/alkaline - for Robb

Robb says:

> if I do not add huge quantities
> of olive oil to most meals it is
> fairly easy for me to reach
> a net alkaline state …

What do you mean by ‘huge’? I add about 30ml to a salad and regard that
as moderate. 60ml I would regard as large and anything over 100ml
as ‘huge’ for a single meal. Are we on the same wavelength? 

[More ...]

From: "Robert Wolf"
Thursday, December 19, 2002 8:10 AM
Subject: Net alkalinizing diet

>I put this question to the list a few days ago amidst
>another message and received no responses so I am
>going to try again! On the topic of acid/base
>balance and eating a net alkalinizing diet as Loren
>Cordain recommends, what are your thoughts?
>For me fruit seems to be a more dense and easily
>accessible source for an alkaline load but I digestively
>do not tolerate fruit well and immediately experience
>what I would describe as "carb head".
>I am curious if others have any 

[More ...]

A guide to healthy eating and exercising.This is a good book as a primer
for those who have a non scientific back ground.It explains the principles
behind paleo nutrition and exercise in terms that are easy to follow and
therefore commence the programme.It has a different format from the usual
books with the principles on one page and the key memorable phrases on the
facing page.This is a work-book as one reads further you can enter
information onto this work page creating your own work book record. 

[More ...]

The paleolithic diet may have a variable amount of meat and plant depending
on the natural resources available eg inuit 90% animal/fish.Is there any
information about how a group that has been genetically eating one form of
paleo diet but then transfers to another paleo diet.This is not the same as
a ethnic group eating a modern diet.I would suggest that it may have a
deleterious effect changing from a high animal hunter- gathering diet to a
high plant hunter-gathering diet over ashort period of time
-----Original Message-----
From: Evolutionary Fitness Discussion List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
Automatic digest processor
Sent: 

[More ...]

About 70 years ago, Weston Price found evidence that US soils were
depleted. Writing about phosphorous, which is essential for mammalian
health, he said ‘Now when we realize that a 60 bushel crop per acre of
wheat or corn will remove from the soil about 25 pounds of phosphorous per
acre, or one fortieth of the total content in the top 7 inches, we are
immediately confronted with the fundamental, controlling problem that we
have, accordingly, only enough phosphorous in the average soil for forty
excellent crops ...’ The idea has been picked up by other writers
(e.g., ‘Empty Harvest’) 

[More ...]