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I was delighted with Bill's posting stating that "the major celiac support
groups can't get their acts together re: vinegar, alcohol, quinoa, teff,
amaranth" - to which list I would like to add buckwheat.  Then the first
response came in, and already the problem or non-agreement seemed to have
some basis in necessity.

 I happen to be one of those who cannot tolerate white, distilled vinegar.
No problems with other vinegars - rice, balsamic, and cider vinegars are
just fine for me. Even thought I have no problem with balsamic vinegars, I
have recently read a posting from someone who has a negative reaction to
that, as well. [My recollection is that this list has been told that
balsamic vinegar is not made from anything that relates to gluten/gliadin,
but I could be mistaken.]

It seems to me that the recent postings on that subject have denied the
possibility that some of us really do have celiac or celiac type reactions
when we accidentally - or even intentionally - ingest distilled, white
vinegar.  Yet there was a most forceful posting on Tuesday stating that the
odds of that happening were like the odds of winning the lottery - 50,000
to one, or whatever the number was.  This is one lottery I would rather not
have won.

 I find that the statements about gluten/gliadin/celiac type reactions to
distilled vinegar being well-nigh impossible, deny the realities of my
situation, and there must be a few others on the list who fall in the same
category or there would not have been so many posts about this topic. I
think this LIST needs to be mutually supportive, rather than accusing
others of malingering or having an "it's all in your head" reaction. I
don't think anyone has ever said that our reactions to distilled vinegar
are a separate type of allergy and not celiac related. If we can tolerate
other vinegars that does not seem likely. And the distilled vinegar is,
after all, made from a gluten containing grain.

 My (frequently faulty) memory tells me that someone wrote to the list to
say that it is only a very infinitesimally small part of the gliadin
molecule that actually causes celiac problems - not the whole gliadin
molecule. Is that correct? Is it possible that that mini-microscopic
fragment is indeed small enough to get thru the distillation process?

As we have established on this list that some celiacs present with diarrhea
as a major symptom, while others have constipation, and a few even have
only irrational anger or DH as symptoms of celiac disease, I think we have
learned what many doctors seem to have trouble accepting - that is that
gluten/gliadin cause(s) different symptoms in different people. We also
know that some people are only a little bit sensitive while others react to
a mere crumb on the butter or from the toaster. No one on the list denies
the differences in reactions to the same type of poison.  It seems that
denying symptoms of some of the group in  talking about distilled vinegar
is a real insult to the person or persons who has/have celiac symptoms
after ingesting distilled white vinegar.

We all seem to agree that one can have food sensitivities in addition to
gluten sensitivity.  The product under discussion, which is distilled from
wheat, seems to fall in a different category from the other items that Bill
mentioned.

Quinoa, buckwheat, and amaranth have been tested by food chemists and found
to NOT contain the type of gluten/gliadin that causes celiac disease.
Those seeds or fruits are from plants that are not biologically related to
wheat, barley, rye (and maybe oats).

I cannot write about teff as I know nothing about it.

Alcohol, and I am assuming that Bill is referring to distilled liquor like
whiskey, bourbon, etc., is usually distilled from a gluten-containing
grain. For me that puts whiskey, rye, and bourbon in the same category as
distilled white vinegar. The same category because a gluten containing
source before distillation and a gluten-type reaction after the
distillation process is complete.

Not sure where to end this discussion, but I think we might start by trying
to get the major celiac support groups to accept the scientific basis for
NOT including quinoa, buckwheat, and amaranth in the celiac NO list.  It
is, let me be the first to say it, very possible to have a food sensitivity
to quinoa, buckwheat, or/and amaranth.  But it is not technically a
gliadin/gluten, celiac reaction that one might have.

I feel strongly about this subject and have tried to write without
emotional overtones.  I would be interested in your reactions.

Gayle Kennedy,  Ithaca, NY