But wasn't that because the local people couldn't afford to compensate
the man for his praying?  I mean, it's all very well to have a 'Jewel in
the Crown,' but if a man's family starves because the other members of
the community are so poor themselves they can't support a family fully
(and that does seem a bit extreme to me), then isn't it a sin for the
man to neglect the well-being of his wife and children?

I realise one of the commandments of Judaism is charity, and I realise
studying Torah is a priority.   But I always thought that Jews also
place a high priority on keeping your family well.

Sorry if I'm missing something important here...

Kat

Meir Weiss wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Well I can try
>
> They were the bundist movement
>
> "union" in a manner of speaking
>
> And very not religious (which was even more dangerous for jews to
> survive.................
>
> But meg brings up a valid point
>
> Lookit in times gone by (regretfully)...........if a community had a man
> who devoted himself to learning torah it was the jewel in the crown for
> that community.
>
> It protected the community from dangerous situations i.e. in europe  go
> bone up on history of anti semitism a bit it is not hard to find at all.
>
> I regret [again]
>
> Yet with all this there were couples whose husband learned and was not
> compensated properly.
>
> And that is a chillul Hashem.
>
> A disgrace to G-d.
>
> =====================
>
> So back to these unions
>
> They offered money, a guaranteed salary in those desperate times
>
> And as in russia they demanded to wipe you clean of anything smelling of
> anything that wasn't   marxist/communist.
>
> It was a  HUGE  religious  trade off a la  dr faust
>
> As was the times of the jews in the times of chanukah  (greece)
>
> What was said below is essentially true
>
> Be well
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: St. John's University Cerebral Palsy List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kat
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:45
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Judaism (was:Re: Re: Did I delete something important? Genia)
>
>
> Frankly, I don't know.  I'm in a Reformed Synagogue which is much more
> liberal than an Orthodox Shul so I've no idea.  But maybe Meir could
> enlighten us. Meir...?
>
> A lot of Jews supported Lenin because they were of the working class -
> remember they were dirt poor and treated like peons - and so they saw a
> hope of the end of the tyranny of the Tsars.  Remember that line in
> 'Fiddler on the Roof,' in which the Rabbi says, 'May G-d bless and keep
> the Tsar...far away from us!'  That was how they all felt about the
> Tsarist government and they hated and feared the Cossacks, those horse
> soldiers of the Tsars who would lead the pogroms.  So it was no wonder
> that young Jews turned so eagerly to the new Socialist promises of a
> better and freer life.
>
> For a fascinating portrayal of life as a Jew in Old Russia, I recommend
> 'The Promised Land,' by Mary Antin, still in print and available at
> Amazon; it may be at your library.  It was published in 1918 and it was
> written by a Russian Jewish immigrant whose family immigrated from
> Polotsk (where my father's family was from) to Boston.
>
> Kat
>
> -------Original Message-------
> From: "Cleveland, Kyle E." <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: 07/31/03 09:13 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Did I delete something important? Genia
>
>
>>Fascinating!  So how did an Orthodox man reconcile davening every day
>
> (except Shabbat, of course) with the Torah work ethic (ref. Rambam)?
> This was probably just before the time of the Bolshevik uprising, right?
> That makes sense.  So, mag's grandfather apparently rebelled against his
> own father's ultra-Orthodoxy and became a Socialist?
>
> I love family stories.  They add so much life to historical study!
>