Fredrik Murman wrote:
 >>I consider each species seperately and don't lump all cereals together
 >>with "wheat". This "wheat" is IMO a dangerous product of our times and
 >>very different from stone age "wheat".
 >
 > Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean.

I mean, there are a lot of rather differening seeds from the various
grasses. Classical are rye, wheat, spelt, millet, rice, maize, oats.
These have rather different properties.
What we call "wheat" today is a more recent variety (seed wheat,
trig.aestivum). In the last 3 decades this "wheat" has been modified
intensely by breeding and lately by gentec.
Dod you ever consider what they do to make a plant "naturaly resistant"
against pests? They breed them to drastically increase *antinutrient*
levels. Like lectins.
If even a simpler organism like a pest cannot stand to eat such grains
anymore, how much more can it affect a human.
How could I eat what even kills a bug, naturally adapted to grains?
That's what the "bread" of today is made of.

Then the varieties.
Historic wheat is a different species from today.
E.g. romans used "far" (Emmer) and spelt - what you could, have today
too. Italian pasta is made of durum wheat. Far away from today's bread
wheat.
In former times, you can be sure, our anchestors selected for the most
palatable varieties. Now "we" do the opposite, and high speed.
Creating the lonesome lectin bug killer.

 > I used to eat rye bread labeled "sourdough", but I doubt it was true
 > sourdough after reading some high tech recipes on the Internet.

Sourdough is the true former technique to decrease phytin amounts.
The other antinutrients (lectins and some more) are inactivated by
heating, but not phytin.

But sourdough takes a long time to rest for this activity.
Time is money.
So, they just use or add yeast (and a little sourdough).
And you get a "sourdough" bread ("with yeast") within some minutes.
But no phytin and lectin inactivation.

The effects of lectins or phytin are more subtle.
E.g. phytin strikes only if more than 50% of all protein is eaten from
ungerminated cereals (without sourdough).
So there are no limit values. And "gentec engineers" or breeders work to
increase this stuff as high as possible.

But I'm sure that such antinutrients are the reason, why many "natural
foodists" sometimes fail to rely on grains, or aren't satisfied.

regards

Amadeus