We have a comedian who plays that character.

Well of course Clint Eastwood is a great actor, and we all love his films.
But [getting angrier] if he came and urinated in our letterbox, I would
give him a slap and say 'Oy Clint, you are a great actor, but I will not
tolerate you urinating in my letterbox'.

So you have been maligning the good people of Twin Falls.  But take this
further, if I have some friends come and visit, and we see someone being
threatened because of their views or race or religion, and we step in to
protect them, (which is all I was talking about, not starting a civil war
myself) would we then be that 'gang of crazy lefties' and fair game?

Peter

On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 at 18:49, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Notice that I said if you come here with a band of crazy leftists (ie, as
> in a civil war) threatening people and doing harm?  Peter, if you came here
> to live you COULD live. People do that here right now. Twin Falls continues
> to grow, and a lot of the people coming here are the ones leaving failed
> left run cities. There is an Islamic prayer center.  We have a refugee
> center pouring people into the community from Africa, Pakistan, and now
> Ukraine.  There is a college. There is freedom of expression. It’s like
> most other places, with the exception that people are largely leaning to
> the right and patriotic. They are farmers, industry workers, educators,
> doctors, nurses, lawyers.  They also like to hunt.
>
> I’m not living in a place where only one viewpoint is safe.  However, I’m
> not living in a place where people have no viewpoint of their own, and they
> are likely to tell you if they disagree with yours.
>
> On Feb 12, 2024, at 11:16 AM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> OK let's go with it.  Is there freedom of expression and political or
> religious/anti-religious views in Twin Falls?  If I moved there and told
> people my views would I be threatening their lives or would they be
> threatening me?  If I killed one of your friends to stop him/her killing
> me, would you then shoot my ass?  I am being inflammatory?
>
> And if you are living in a place where only one viewpoint is safe, what
> would be your motivation in living there and having friends there?  What
> would you be saying to them about what it means to be a Christian there?
>
> Remember, this is not just crazy rhetoric from me.  This is my family
> history.where people were told that they were in danger from crazy leftist
> Jews, while at the same time it was the Jews being threatened.  Then the
> book-burning, which is bad enough as it is, but whose aim was to take away
> any chance of the children of Twin Falls hearing about the good side of
> Judaism or Socialism or Islam.
>
> Meanwhile, I know the truth that, in my city which is as far left as any
> city in Britain, there is a large Christian population, as well as a large
> Jewish and Islamic and LGBTQ populations.  I don't have to advise you not
> to come and live here, your books will not be burned - but if you encourage
> people to attack Moslems or gay people you will be arrested.
>
> Peter
>
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 at 18:00, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>> If you come with a gang of left crazy people to Twin Falls (first, I
>> would advise not doing that), and you threaten my home or the lives of my
>> friends, yes. Unfortunately, I will shoot your ass.  SO.  Don’t do it. Pull
>> back from the inflammatory rhetoric about what a solution civil war is.
>> There are no winners.
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2024, at 10:42 AM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> And you Phil?
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 at 17:41, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> And if it comes to civil war, which one of you will be out in the
>>> streets fighting? My bet is not one.
>>>
>>> On Feb 12, 2024, at 10:32 AM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Peter and Charlie:
>>>
>>> It was LBJ who approached the political process with the hope that “we
>>> can reason together.”  He is known for having passed the most far-reaching
>>> legislation of any president. He forged coalitions for civil rights, for
>>> example.
>>>
>>> I lack LBJ’s faith that “we can reason together.”  This is what I’ve
>>> been sayin by the crisis and collapse of our Enlightenment values.
>>>
>>> To say something reasonable is not the same as saying that is “true.”
>>>  This is a problem. Fake news is “reasonable.”  Of course “Antifa” was
>>> behind the insurrection, a pizza restaurant was the headquarters of a
>>> pedophile ring, and Trump is the rightful winner of the election.
>>>
>>> “Reason” can be the whore of thinking.  It can go and do anything for a
>>> price.
>>>
>>> The South and the North each had reasonable and incompatible points of
>>> view. It took the Civil War to resolve this.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> On Feb 12, 2024, at 12:20 PM, Peter Philippson <
>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you Charlie.
>>>
>>> I am not so sure about reason unfortunately.  Look at our process here.
>>> Reason becomes an equalising process where the most crazy things are said
>>> as 'reasonable' arguments - Phil is great at that.  At some point, people
>>> must say 'No!  No argument, no reasoning like adults, just no!  You
>>> threaten me and the nation, and I don't need any reasonable argument to
>>> replace fighting you.'
>>>
>>> Sometimes the fight just needs to happen if that is in the wings,
>>> because reason won't cut it.  Paradoxically, because the MAGA people are
>>> such cowards, the threat to actually fight has usually led to backing
>>> down.  That is one of the truths of January 6th: the insurgents had enough
>>> people and firepower to kill the people they were threatening to kill, and
>>> all the police, but they backed down in the face of police fighting back,
>>> then claiming that they were just day-trippers.  When I've intervened when
>>> street bullies were threatening people, they have always backed down when
>>> they saw that I was ready for real violence.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 at 16:05, Charlie Bowman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dan, when you said "echo chamber" it reminded me of a portion of Al
>>>> Gore's speech at the Davos economic summit:
>>>>
>>>> "These algorithms that suck people down proverbial rabbit holes,
>>>> they're more like the pitcher plants with slippery sides and at the bottom
>>>> of the rabbit hole, that's where the echo chamber is. And people who dwell
>>>> long enough in the echo chamber become vulnerable to a new kind of AI. Not
>>>> artificial intelligence, but artificial insanity."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *The comparison of Joe Biden to Donald Trump is ridiculous and only
>>>> perpetuated by algorithmic news delivery. Biden, while a politician, is not
>>>> a criminal. He's been convicted of nothing and the last time I checked,
>>>> that was a requirement of democracy, not the result of spending time at the
>>>> bottom of the rabbit hole.*
>>>>
>>>> *Trump is a convicted criminal. The litmus test for me has always been,
>>>> "would I want my children to follow in the footsteps of my leaders."
>>>> Barack and Michelle Obama have come the closest to that standard.*
>>>>
>>>> I hold no quarter for MAGA Republicans, and believe the last hope we
>>>> have left is a political appeal to reason.  Reform must come now;
>>>> reforms in both how we pollute our environment and how we receive
>>>> information.  We must change in the direction of healing our planet,
>>>> regardless of the nature of the fight we must undertake.
>>>>
>>>> *Charlie*
>>>>
>>>> *"For green grass and clean rivers, children with bright eyes and good
>>>> color, and people safe from being pushed around – for a few things like
>>>> these, I find I am pretty ready to think away most other political,** economic,
>>>> and technological advantages."   - Paul Goodman, 1970*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 3:35 PM Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sure. MAGA people don’t wear red hats or walk in lock-step with their
>>>>> creator.  That’s a media creation of the left.  Congress is not in a
>>>>> deadlock on immigration and foreign aid because MAGA’s leader issued a
>>>>> command.  My mistake.  I guess I ought to stop reading stuff printed by my
>>>>> echo chamber.  LOL.
>>>>>
>>>>> Values? I refer to the Enlightenment values of reason and discourse.
>>>>> I refer to republicanism and democracy.  I refer to acceptance of the
>>>>> plurality of differences.  I refer to what Martin Luther King referred to
>>>>> as the arc of justice.
>>>>>
>>>>> What is going on now is a tragedy — because it is destroying those
>>>>> values.   The values we hold in common.
>>>>>
>>>>>  I ‘ve read plenty of SCOTUS opinions written by conservatives and
>>>>> appreciated them because of they made good law even though their
>>>>> conclusions clashed with my sense of how things out to be.  I and those
>>>>> justices who wrote those   decisions shared common values.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is different now.  Now reminds me of pre-Civil War America.
>>>>>
>>>>> The church?  The world can’t understand it? It is a political behemoth
>>>>> wearing a coat of many colors. it is not A church, but the name of
>>>>> political power in the name of god.  The church used such political power
>>>>> for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years.  May I suggest the 30
>>>>> Years War? The Counter Reformation?  May I suggest the battle between the
>>>>> church and the princes in the late Middle Ages?  And the conquest of
>>>>> Christian Europe by Islam?  These examples are just off the top of my head.
>>>>>
>>>>> What’s to understand?   :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > On Feb 11, 2024, at 2:38 PM, Philip Brownell <
>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > In reference to what you said below, “the twisting of ‘our’ values,”
>>>>> whose values? Values are entwined in politics. Also in spirituality. Also
>>>>> in morality. But there is no one size fits all supporter of Trump. There is
>>>>> no MAGA monolith; that is a creation of the left and a straw man talking
>>>>> point. There are people who share some values and differ on others who may
>>>>> also support Trump. Personally, I lament church leaders as it were making a
>>>>> Dorian Gray type bargain in the hope of getting some political goal,
>>>>> because the church will never get what it wants from the world. The world
>>>>> cannot understand the church. And when I say “church,” I’m not talking
>>>>> about the Constantinan hybrid that many people think is the church.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The current electoral season is a cluster fuck that would have made
>>>>> for a comedic farce only ten years ago. Now it is a tragedy.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Phil
>>>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> On Feb 11, 2024, at 7:10 AM, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> To the extent the churches, synagogues, mosques, and temples stand
>>>>> by and watch the twisting of our values by MAGA, they are complicit. Since
>>>>> religions are supposed to be the source of morality, they have a greater
>>>>> duty to take moral stands than other institutions.   The only consistent
>>>>> moral stand I see then taking in all this is against the right to choose.
>>>>> Fortunately, some religions push back against the right to life people.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ______________
>>>>> > Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested in
>>>>> gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives
>>>>> can be found at
>>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>>>>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>>>>> found at the archives.
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________
>>>>> Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested in gestalt
>>>>> therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives can be
>>>>> found at http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L,
>>>>> and subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner,"
>>>>> which is found at the archives.
>>>>>
>>>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people
>>>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its
>>>> public archives can be found at
>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>>>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>>>> found at the archives.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Peter (Philippson)
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people
>>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its
>>> public archives can be found at
>>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>>> found at the archives.
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people
>>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its
>>> public archives can be found at
>>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>>> found at the archives.
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people
>>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its
>>> public archives can be found at
>>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>>> found at the archives.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Peter (Philippson)
>> [log in to unmask]
>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested
>> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives
>> can be found at
>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>> found at the archives.
>>
>>
>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested
>> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives
>> can be found at
>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>> found at the archives.
>
>
>
> --
> Peter (Philippson)
> [log in to unmask]
> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested
> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives
> can be found at
> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
> found at the archives.
>
>
> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested
> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives
> can be found at
> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
> found at the archives.



-- 
Peter (Philippson)
[log in to unmask]

______________
Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives can be found at http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is found at the archives.