The swamp seems to be most dangerously peopled by those who talk about the
swamp!

Peter

On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 at 18:29, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Dan
> One difference. That which emerges is not identical to that from which it
> emerges. The swamp gas is not the swamp. They are indeed in a sub- and
> supervenient relationship, and so Trump emerged from and is of a complex
> adapting field, and he now exerts a downward influence over it. But the
> field is still self adapting. There is a Haley. There are more people in
> the country who will not vote for Trump than who will (no matter what).
> There is the separation of powers in the government. The system is in
> turmoil, not dead.
>
> And what I think would be wise is to examine the swamp more than the swamp
> gas.
>
> Phil
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 3, 2024, at 10:37 AM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> 
> Thanks Dan.
>
> I think there are arguments to be had about all those points, but the main
> thing is the totally dumb attempt to provide a spurious parity between
> actions that weaken the democratic and legal bonds that hold a nation
> together or that sustain our capacity to live comfortably on our planet,
> and the gender thing which only really affects those involved.
>
> Peter
>
> On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 at 16:17, Dan Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> I agree Peter.
>>
>> His emergence is of a field in which he has been a provocateur.
>>
>> We know in emergence theory that  emergent events exert downward
>> non-linear “causation" on that from which they are emergent.   This is a
>> sub- and supervenient relationship.
>>
>> Trump is both the swamp gas emergent of the swamp and the swamp itself. :)
>>
>> I agree with Maher, by the way.  Both sides deny the science that is
>> inconvenient to them. But his characterization of gender issues is
>> uninformed.   Does he really know nothing about them? Seems he does.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2024, at 10:56 AM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> No, he was the enabler, but he would have been nobody without people who
>> said 'Well he isn't presidential, but he fulfills our/God's purpose.'  Now
>> who would have said that?!
>>
>> By the way, field theory doesn't say that an individual isn't very
>> powerful at times.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 at 00:26, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ya know. He alone, all by himself pulled the entire country apart. Where
>>> is your field theory right now Peter?  It’s just not that simple.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Feb 2, 2024, at 4:50 PM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Weasel, weasel, weasel...
>>>
>>> You are a distinterested social experimenter who supported the guy who
>>> as we predicted pulled apart the social fabric of your country IN THE NAME
>>> OF CONSERVATISM.
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> On Fri, 2 Feb 2024, 22:56 Philip Brownell, <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I’m not desperate Peter. Desperation not in the equation. I’m just
>>>> quoting Bill Maher as a kind of social experiment/ Rorschach test. You know
>>>> what might a person say to this? And there you are.
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 2, 2024, at 3:48 PM, Peter Philippson <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> You must be desperate Phil.
>>>>
>>>> On the one hand there are people trying to turn America into a fascist
>>>> theocracy, invading the seats of power and threatening to kill those they
>>>> disagree with, threatening democracy, achieving the legal a system, or
>>>> denying climate emergencies while parts of America burns. On the other hand
>>>> there are some people whose proprioceptive sense of themselves is of a
>>>> different gender to their outer physical appearance. I know, let's find a
>>>> form of weasel words that makes them as bad as each other.
>>>>
>>>> Desperate indeed!
>>>>
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 2 Feb 2024, 15:46 Philip Brownell, <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bill Maher: "When historians look back in a hundred years, if we're
>>>>> still here, I don't think they're going to divide the country like we do
>>>>> into these two camps. They're going to say: As a *people*, they were
>>>>> obnoxious. It happens in different forms on both sides. As a people, they
>>>>> didn't believe in science. On the right, they think global warming is a
>>>>> hoax or whatever nonsense they believe about that. And on the left, they
>>>>> think men can have babies. That's what they'll say. They'll say, ‘As a
>>>>> people, they just lost their s--t.’”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people
>>>>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its
>>>>> public archives can be found at
>>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>>>>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>>>>> found at the archives.
>>>>
>>>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people
>>>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its
>>>> public archives can be found at
>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>>>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>>>> found at the archives.
>>>>
>>>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people
>>>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its
>>>> public archives can be found at
>>>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>>>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>>>> found at the archives.
>>>
>>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people
>>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its
>>> public archives can be found at
>>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>>> found at the archives.
>>>
>>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people
>>> interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its
>>> public archives can be found at
>>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>>> found at the archives.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Peter (Philippson)
>> [log in to unmask]
>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested
>> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives
>> can be found at
>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>> found at the archives.
>>
>>
>> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested
>> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives
>> can be found at
>> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
>> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
>> found at the archives.
>
>
>
> --
> Peter (Philippson)
> [log in to unmask]
> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested
> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives
> can be found at
> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
> found at the archives.
>
> ______________ Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested
> in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives
> can be found at
> http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and
> subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is
> found at the archives.



-- 
Peter (Philippson)
[log in to unmask]

______________
Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives can be found at http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is found at the archives.