Joe,
I urge you to enjoy your christmas with your loved ones and ignore the
nonsense thrown around in the name of debating or discussing things that
matter. These very exemplary citizens who are doing something for the
community should not worry themselves about what Joe is doing or
stand for.
Let them keep spewing the untruths about impudence, rudeness, 'nothing to
offer', intolerance etc. We will meet them where it matters.
Best regards,
Mboge
On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Joe Joe <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Khaleel, thanks for your response. I do not need to know you, but atleast
> someone credible on this list can tell us who you are and that is simple.
> Bro, it is not difficult to know an alias, over time. So, can some one
> vouch they know Khaleel, anyone. If a person is not an alias, there is no
> one who contributes here frequently that is not know by others. The
> importance of this goes back to integrity. I never died because I disagree
> or agree with someone so why would I target you? No, I want to know that
> you are a known quantity other wise I will be wasting my time talking to a
> thing. There is also something called accountibility and responsibility. We
> should be responsible and accountable for what we say to others. It is easy
> to get away with murder if you are not a known quantity don't you think?
> This is all part of the maturity you were preaching.
>
> Joe
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 11:51:12 -0500
>
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [G_L] [>-<] RE: [G_L] Imam Baba Leigh: The Compassionate
> Letter
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Joe,
>
> I know for a fact that you do not know me, so where do you want me to
> start by telling you who I am? Do you want my biography? The relevance of
> which I don't see. What makes you think Khaleel is an alias? I won't ask
> you if Joe is on your birth certificate. Just because you do not know me,
> you want to write me off as an alias. We can't limit ourselves to what we
> think brother. Would it have been better for you if I used Bakary Njie,
> Ebrima Drammeh or Foday Fofana which you can see as a common name. I am
> certain you know that I can create an email account with those common names
> to hide if thats my intent. Brother my maturity is not in my name, it is in
> my analytical reasoning, my wisdom to understand differences and acecpt
> them and my blessings to withstand adversities. Sending you my bio won't
> make any difference to you so lets have a conversation about things that
> matters. I have never came up here trashing or attacking people so what
> will make me hide is unclear to me. GO back and look at everything I ever
> wrote, I am not careless with words. Either way, Khaleel is my name and I
> don't need to prove that to you. I had this email account for years. Is
> this a tactic to discredit me because I don't agree with you? Merry
> Christmas brother!
>
> Khaleel
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 10:13:28 -0600
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [G_L] [>-<] RE: [G_L] Imam Baba Leigh: The Compassionate
> Letter
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Khaleel, thanks for your wisdom. Can you tell me who you are so we can
> continue the conversation. Do you think it is fair for you to hide behind
> an alias and have a mature conversation with cowards that at least reveal
> their ID? Thank you for your consideration.
>
> Joe
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 18:13:16 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [G_L] [>-<] RE: [G_L] Imam Baba Leigh: The Compassionate
> Letter
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> Another interesting and heated debate of opinions and perspectives, all of
> you made some sobering points to this issue. It is interesting though how
> some of us can’t disagree on anything without name-calling and insults.
> Are we that immature and inexperienced? Some of us demonstrate the same
> traits we condemn in Jammeh perhaps without realizing it.
>
> We are setting a dangerous precedence in that we talk freely claiming
> moral high grounds on issues without any regard to those who actually live
> those issues. I think Paco hit it right on; to paraphrase, nothing is
> stopping us from getting off these computers and head back to Banjul and
> fight the fight rather than being self-righteous behind these machines.
> Brother Paco I have to admit, you made a lot of sense. Your independent
> thinking should be encouraged. Some of the hypocrisy here is ridiculous.
> It is much easier to point fingers or to see the wrong of others.
>
> Joe, you made very interesting points and raised very valid questions;
> where is his congregation? Essentially where are the Gambian people who
> believe in justice for all? If what you asked made any sense, and I believe
> it does then we must accept that no matter how much we disagree on here,
> call each other names and insult each other, the resolution of Gambian
> issues will not be achieved on this forum. So those that claim this high
> almighty line of logic need to start packing their bags and buy a one way
> ticket to Banjul, stand beside those enduring the struggle day in day out
> then scream and it will make sense to cowards like me. Until then this
> notion of fighting while everyone else is laying dormant online is an
> illusion.
>
> Truth is, we did the same thing during Jawara’s regime jumped hastily in
> the Jammeh camp in 1994 expecting him to be our long overdue savior without
> taking our time. Now we are claiming that anything is better than Jammeh. I
> share the wishes of the mass to have a change of regime sooner than later,
> but the way we are action on these forums frightens me for our future. Are
> we capable of understanding that disagreements should be welcomed and
> tolerated? When we lose wisdom and tolerance and start thinking that what
> we say as individuals is gospel, our thoughts should be modeled then we
> will drive this nation to its peril.
>
> The Gambia is our country and if anyone thinks they love it more than the
> other base on big arguments, beating your chest and ready to curse people
> out who don’t share your stance can keep on making a fool out of
> themselves. How do we measure ones love for country? We can’t all be the
> same that is why it is essential not to condemn or crucify our brethren’s.
> We need to extend our hands to those that fell from grace and have them
> march along with us. Tolerance is essential in any struggle. I am by no
> means calling for Dr. Janneh to be our exalted leader but do we really need
> to crush him for his decision to accept to work for Gambia? I said this
> before and I will say it again, I really don’t believe that Dr. Janneh was
> in too deep in the Jammeh’s trusted circle. For what its worth lets agree
> to disagree on issues exercising maturity and tolerance.
>
>
> Khaleel
> ------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 14:59:36 +0100
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [G_L] [>-<] RE: [G_L] Imam Baba Leigh: The Compassionate
> Letter
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Paco Faal,
>
> I am not surprise you are itching to shout out your filth, especially when
> you see the names of Joe Sambou and the likes. I will not dislodge myself
> from any struggle especially when idiots like you are around. The only
> way you will not hear me on this forum or any other is to be delisted.
> I am not going anywhere.* I am not fighting anyone's struggle and you
> are right not even my family*. *They can confirm that to you. * The
> struggle i am fighting for is my struggle. I represent myself not cowards
> like you who do not even have the guts to use their proper names.
>
> You wrote: *"Mboge, the problem you face is, you cannot stop Amadou
> Janneh from attending any protest, contributing to or joining any Gambian
> group in the diaspora. The most you can do is exclude yourself from the
> process or stop associating with groups that include Amadou Janneh in their
> midst. That's your only choice and I hope it's one you do not take because
> that is tantamount to being an idiot."
> *
> Paco Faal, you echoing MKJ's lie. In little your little mind, it is about
> trying to stop A S Janneh and Co. No surprise, this lie the likes of
> you will keep repeating, i tell you what i will throw it back to you. No
> one can stop A S Janneh doing anything, but no one as well can stop people
> from asking questions about *'Gambia's first real political prisoner',
> 'Mandela' or Lui. *
> **
> *I am not associated with any group that is with the likes of A S Janneh
> and Co and God forbid, i never will. * And oh that is not *my only
> choice. I determine what my choices are PF. *
>
> Keep deluding yourself about Jammeh laughing. Unless we start talking
> truth to each other Jammeh will keep laughing seeing the Sedat Jobe's, A S
> Janneh's and their tipsy defenders telling us that they are the best the
> opposition can come up with.
>
> *"Yes, Amadou and his buddies will forever be stained by their
> association with Jammeh**, ** but you and Joe are myopic in your views
> that we ought to isolate, and insult those who've worked with Jammeh".*
> Aha, did you say anything about stained. Well it is a lie that I am
> insulting A S Janneh, the real insult is the one liars and idiots like you
> keep telling us that A S Janneh is our Mandela and the rest of the nonsense
> i cannot remember.
>
> Get a grip Mister, no more hogwashing.
>
> Mboge
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Paco Faal <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Everytime Jammeh sees this kind of stuff from the struggle, he pops 3
> Ambiens and sleeps until 4pm then convenes a cabinet meeting just to see
> which one of his ministers he is going to fire again. With the attitude
> I've been seeing in these forums for more than a decade, Jammeh does not
> really need to do anything else because we have been continuously doing the
> job for him.
>
> Mboge, the problem you face is, you cannot stop Amadou Janneh from
> attending any protest, contributing to or joining any Gambian group in the
> diaspora. The most you can do is exclude yourself from the process or stop
> associating with groups that include Amadou Janneh in their midst. That's
> your only choice and I hope it's one you do not take because that is
> tantamount to being an idiot. I suggest you crawl back a couple of months
> ago when you had a melt down that you are going to fight the struggle alone
> because Gambians are not worth fighting for; not even you family. I
> suggest we continue contributing to the struggle based on unity because
> neither you nor Joe or anyone of us is yet to come up with a solution to
> the quagmire we face as Gambians. Collectively, all our efforts to fight
> impunity in the Gambia has failed and this is not the time to fuel the
> stereotype that Gambians will rather fight each other than work
> collectively to dislodge jammeh. 19 years in this struggle, I think this is
> the loudest noise Gambians have made against Jammeh and if we should not
> relent in our efforts by letting our egos get the best of us. Yes, Amadou
> and his buddies will forever be stained by their association with Jammeh,
> but you and Joe are myopic in your views that we ought to isolate, and
> insult those who've worked with Jammeh.
>
> Joe, Baba Leigh was not only an Imam with a congregation, he was also a
> human rights advocate. Hamm nga daga barri chahan. It's easy to sit next
> to your keyboard and call people cowards because they refuse to take to the
> streets. What's stopping any of us from going to Gambia and holding a
> protest on the behalf of Baba Leigh for being an honest Imam, a human
> rights defender and a man that spoke for himself and also on the behalf of
> those in the diaspora that want the dignity of Gambians respected? You are
> not satisfied with how Gambians are handling Jammeh, go on the ground and
> call for a mass protest. The opposition must be having a field day reading
> the Gambiapost in the last couple of months. Remember your message of "let
> the opposition put their differences aside and unite"? Oh well, in every
> opposition, there are people like Joe Sambou and Mboge who will never see
> the bigger picture that in unity to fight for a common purpose, differences
> must be set aside. The common purpose here being Yahya Jammeh and him
> only.
>
> Wa Salam.
>
> Paco
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Modou Mboge <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
> Joe,
>
> We are engaged with a bunch of confused idiots thinking that their
> understanding of compromise, moving on and what have you is the gospel. In
> the idiotic minds of this lot the likes of you Joe asking questions
> tantamounts to division and holding back the fight against Jammeh. This is
> nonsense.
>
> In as much as we want Jammeh out, i will not wait to protect myself from
> infectious filth thrown at me in the name of compromise and moving on. *I
> refuse to be part of those repeating history in its undesired form.
> Remember in our desire to see the PPP and Jawara out of power, we failed to
> develop a robust democratic dispensation to talk truth to each other and
> thus ended up having a monster usurp power; since then Gambians are dealing
> with a nightmare that refuses to go. *To me the hypocritical call for
> decorum is part of the problem we face.
>
> It is very strange when the loud mouths on these online forums and
> "Jukeboxes" spend their time doubting the integrities of the established
> soldiers in the line of fire, to come and tell us that putting the record
> straight about 'turn coats' and 'enblers' like A S Janneh, Sidi Sanneh,
> Sedat Jobe, Buba Baldeh and Co is about chasing them from the opposition to
> Jammeh.
>
> It is a lie and utter rubbish and i will continue to call it what it is.
> Let them call it venom, rudeness, spoiling the debate or whatever. I hope
> we are not in this to be liked just for the sake of it. For me i am not
> involve in any debate, i am exercising my democratic right to state to the
> obvious.
>
> Nonsense! How on earth can one let the likes of Mathew K Jallow, whenever
> he desires attacks anyone then turn around to tell us that his friends are
> the best thing Gambia ever had. And, you have lemmings competing to tell us
> that, Oh! please let us move and energise the fight against Jammeh.
>
> The fight against Jammeh is alive and well. if these bunch don't know.
> Jammeh will go as soon as we're ready to face difficult questions about
> ourselves.
>
> Joe, keep up the spirit.
>
> Merry Christmas and happy new year.
>
> Best regards,
> Mboge
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Joe Joe <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Yero, thanks for your response. Yes, anytime a loved one is not allowed
> to be seen by these people you know they are doing harm to the person the
> reason why they do not want folks to see the damage they are doing or have
> done. My questions were not to you personally, nor were they for
> diasporans. Those questions were directed at those on the ground,
> especially those that wear the cloak of holier than thou. Folks in that
> country pride themselves as more pious than pious. Now, how come the person
> that led them every day is nabbed and everyone is about their business but
> the business of their Imam? Is this another one of those Allah knows best?
> It is the hypocrisy of our people that I was questioning. I am not a muslim
> but common sense tells me if my Imam is nabbed by a criminal and we all
> know what could happen to him, the congregation of the faithful should rise
> up and that nonsense will be nabbed at the bud. Can you do that in Senegal
> and that government survive a day (not the case of Bethou, he was accessory
> to murder)? No. And so we run around show casing our piety, but can never
> see nor hear evil. Transitioning from the Imams and their congregation to
> the Clergy. Where is their faith? Most of these guys grew up and ran the
> streets with Imam Leigh in socialization circles aback in the day and they
> know what is happening to him is wrong and should speak up. Their silence
> speaks volume. Where is their faith? I see them organize this and that
> interfaith dialogue and where it counts the most - caring for your fellow
> human you see no evil and hear no evil. This is where I am headed Yero. You
> will agree with me that those that can put an end to this injustice right
> now as I write are minutes away from Mile Two. Now, if you believe it is
> more effective from five thousand miles outside I cannot argue over that.
> Diasporans have been doing doing what they can do for their country the
> last fifteen years, yet, folks are murdered, tortured, nabbed, shot at,
> etc. That abuse will never stop for the action that needs to stop it is
> right there and as long as they claim that "Human Rights and Civil Rights"
> dont feed them, it will be business as usual. Yesterday it was Chief Manneh
> and others, today it is Imam Leigh, tomorrow might be a relative, brother,
> or sister near you.
>
> As to your indirect reference to Amadou, I believe you know what needs to
> be done. None is stopping nor can we stop anyone from standing up. We some
> of us are demanding is that before any shrub stands up to want to lead us,
> they first have to explain their actions and I do not have to bore folks
> with that track record. If you say you are neutral and do not belong to any
> group, how come I am not reading any where, where you wrote to Amadou to
> tell him the basics of common sense - that after he sold his soul, the
> right thing to do is to fess up first and before he tells us about how Yaya
> (not that there is new science in that anyway) is, we need to know about
> him first. But to be an opportunist and took off only to run back still an
> opportunist and have the nerve to think that you should be seen as
> someone's leader is the height of arrogance. If you are not here to lead
> anyone, then why do you want to be our face? Why take such a face that Yaya
> discarded to fight Yaya and expect to be taken seriously? Now, Amadou being
> part of CCG what has that to do with folks that are nabbed in Gambia? He
> was there when folks were being murdered and nothing happened. So, he being
> in Atlanta or Dakar makes no difference. Seriously, we need to stop this
> messiah syndrome. This is why we have our share of dictators in Africa
> because for some reason we always think that one person is it and without
> him the end is near. Reminds me when Jawara set the scheme to entrap his
> suspects by announcing his retirement. Legend has it that many a Alaghi
> lost their Kala for rolling on the ground, "Nore Paabi, Dun Kor Have" in a
> trance. We have far too many credible folks to choose from, why should we
> dumb down our standards? Why? Apparently all those that came here to tell
> us this is not about leadership were not either in the know, or were being
> deceptive. For, Matthew spelt out that Amadou will lead us whether we like
> it or not. If any is going to lend their name or integrity to something, be
> very mindful that it is something that is worth it. Your integrity is all
> you have and without it all is lost.
>
> "Joe, we are all citizens. Let us make the best out of these forums with
> a view for scrutiny, accountability, and points taking rather than having
> to see any debate get flamed by unnecessary venoms."
>
> Yero, what do you mean by the above? It appears you are speaking about
> those that do not agree with your position, no? So, can you please clarify
> for me who these people are and we can discuss further.
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe
> ------------------------------
> From: [log in to unmask]
> To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [>-<] RE: [G_L] Imam Baba Leigh: The Compassionate Letter
> Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 21:08:02 -0600
>
>
>
> Joe:
>
> These are genuine questions and thanks for your rejoinders as always.
> Before getting into it, it might interest you to hear some live updates
> about the Imam. Minnesota civil rights group just concluded its meeting
> about three (3) hours ago. It was purposely conducted to see what action
> Gambians and their friends can take. We also had a conference call with a
> prominent family member of the arrested Imam (Baba Leigh) in the Gambia on
> the phone. From his updates, the Imam is still kept incommunicado. No one
> is allowed to see him. Now that leaves a lot of speculations about his
> fate. I don't trust this administration and their track record as I keep
> crying is very dirty. We certainly came up with certain actionable items.
> We are happy to put that to action in conjunction with what other groups
> are doing in different states of the US.
>
>
> Joe, you asked about the whereabouts of these special class people if you
> like. Personally, as an ordinary citizen who doesn't belong to any class, I
> worry more about what is within my reach and power that I can extend
> sincerely to our nation and its people especially the oppressed and
> suffering masses. Belonging to former US President JFK's school of thought,
> thus "ask not what your country can do for you; but what you can do for
> your country." What I am trying to say Joe is the fact that we must
> certainly realize by now that some of these folks you are asking for do not
> have the same thoughts or believes that you and I have. You do not expect
> that they will fight the fight you expect them to fight. I am sorry but I
> thought that you know more than that. That is level I am at.
>
>
> Joe, where this now leads us to: Do you see it genuine then to welcome
> those that are ready to fight with us? I am not looking for anyone to
> confuse my points as it is so common for anyone to just get away with any
> little part to fume these forums or to make certain people the supporters
> of those who once worked with Jawara or Jammeh. Clearly, I do not belong to
> any group. I am an independent person and for the most part while stance is
> different but again it doesn’t mean I am holding brief. Needless to
> mention, I am equally disappointment lately of some of the tendencies I saw
> from many people I held so high in this struggle of ours, especially with
> the defensive nature leading to even getting dirty in this debate. I will
> be the last person to discourage anyone from debating so again the whole
> issue is not about not wanting to see people being “scrutinized” and
> “accounted”. I see some of the problems being pointed out on the other
> side, but I keep asking, what prescription do we have for a sick person
> already? I would expect a doctor will heal the sick rather than sitting
> there blaming him for eating dirty germs that made him sick or having sex
> with another person that transmitted HIV AIDS to him.
>
>
> Joe, I have a dream that our winning formula against tyranny is unity,
> compromise, fighting together, and letting some of things come later. If we
> fail to do this, we must be ready for the long hours of oppression ahead.
> We must design a winning formula. I am calling for rewarding criminals but
> I am asking for a system where we can all unite to fight the common enemy
> and such a system must not marginalize anyone.
>
>
> In the end, some of the folks' whereabouts you are asking might not be far
> from our reach but if we continue to be intolerant and not welcoming like
> some of the threatening tendencies I have seen, I am afraid, you and I
> might be lonely fighters because I don't know about any other person, but
> personally this is life and death for me. I will fight in secrete and I
> will fight in the open. I will not worry about who is folding their hands
> though again it touches my emotions but like the many who wants to do their
> little, I will do it with them.
>
>
> Joe, we are all citizens. Let us make the best out of these forums with a
> view for scrutiny, accountability, and points taking rather than having to
> see any debate get flamed by unnecessary venoms.
>
>
> I understand that you are in Mauritania. I tried calling your magic jack
> number to no success. I appreciate your steadfastness and being there for
> the struggle for the longest. My best of regards to your entire family and
> I wish you a holiday full of love and blessings.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Yero
> ------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 17:46:41 -0600
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [G_L] Imam Baba Leigh: The Compassionate Letter
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Yero, the larger question around this saga is where are "the faithful", -
> his congregation? What do they believe in? If an Imam's rights are being
> trampled upon with not a muscle twitching, what chance does the ordinary
> Gambian without a following have? Under such circumstances, what does their
> core belief inform? Where are his fellow Imams, his counterparts in the
> Church, etc., forget the average Joe for a second? What do they believe in?
> Their actions speak volumes. So, what do our people believe in? Daily bread
> I suppose!
>
> Joe
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 09:52:26 -0600
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [G_L] Imam Baba Leigh: The Compassionate Letter
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Imam Baba Leigh: The Compassionate Letter
>
> http://caelos.com/gainako/?p=1613
>
> Folks,
>
> I am personally glad to see many continuing to add their voices on Imam
> Baba Leigh. As of yesterday, a friend updated me that the Imam is
> hospitalized and families/friends are not allowed to see him. It is
> suspicious to say the least. While we have heard conflicting theories about
> him being tortured or not, I am getting more worried about the Imam's fate.
> I don't trust Jammeh and his terror administration. That is not because I
> despise them. It is because their track record is what I go by. Moreover, a
> citizen arrested and kept incomminicadoo without being charged within the
> constitution's stipulation is a serious violation of his right. That is
> torture in no small way. The Gambia has come to live under a horrible
> nightmare and it is time for all citizens to make their voices heard by
> which ever means available to them.
>
> Please pass around this letter from Habib and you can possibly inspire
> thousand others.
>
> Best regards,
> Yero
>
>
>
> $B!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"!"
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