Kejau:
I made the
comment in reference to your military background; a position of lieutenant in
Gambian standard must have been a great achievement in the military before
Jammeh. Recent promotions by jammeh are thoughtfully just "shameful"
as they are strictly base on loyalty to jammeh than merit. I regret that I
never joined the military myself. Three years ago, I had to make a tough choice
between joining the US military and another opportunity. I ended up defaulting
to the other opportunity. I have a lot of admiration to those that sincerely
served.
That said,
actually nah! I wasn't trying to tell you that all you can participate in is
the topic on the military, so you and I can debate about other topics. In fact,
it is out of respect that I ask you to add your lines.
Kejau: I am
simply a shepherd. That is my expertise. I am endeavoring to add other things
to my plate. When I grow up, I would like to be a scientist. During my leisure
times I enjoy debating online despite being one of the busiest you can find
around. Years ago, I met with Town crier and he inspired me. As I checked to
see all about his life, I realized town crier with all his noise was a worthy
person because he makes noise about happenings that affects the daily lives of
individuals especially the oppressed. Town crier needed my help and I promised
him ‘till death do us part.’
On Africa's
military, I am disappointed most of the times. I wholly share the views
expressed by DA Jawo. I witnessed certain episodes in the Gambia where some of
the military did blunders and showed no respect at all to civilians. It is very
common to see uniformed men directing insults, beating and kicking civilians. In a recent interview with former lieutenant
Binneh s. Minteh now adjunct professor, he believes that more disciplinary
courses should be added to some of these military courses.
Most of
these coups and counter coups owe themselves to indiscipline even though we
cannot dispute a part coming from corrupt Governments and leaders. The part
where Africa’s military like some of these elements dealt with students at the
beaches, interschool’s sports, April 10th/11th, etc…just
shows the level of indiscipline that Minteh thinks can be arrested with
inclusion of more disciplinary courses in the military curriculum.
Most
recently, we were stocked with Dadis; forget about the Yaya for one bit. What
the trends shows is that even though Gambia’s military take training from
advanced places like Turkey, we are still way behind. The trend also shows likelihood
that such problem of coups will continue as every small bird admires the bigger
bird getting the fat worms.
Back at
you, is it possible to continually keep the military at the barracks? Is it
possible to get the military to a standard where they won’t bully civilians?
Thanks for
the debate and here I reproduce DA’s whole piece as carried by Kibaaro news. It
is open for debate. Feel free to weigh in on any forward and that is goal. I
will promise to discuss on the Muslim brotherhood next time.
Best regards,
Yero
[A
prominent Gambian journalist has said that African armies have proven to be
bullies of local populations rather defending the territorial integrity of
their respective countries.
“African armies are just good at one
thing, which is to constantly intimidate and harass the local population,”
writes Demba Ali Jawo on his Facebook page.
“We have seen it happen in almost
all African countries, with the soldiers subjecting the unarmed civilians to
all sorts of harassment for no justifiable reasons. Yet, when it comes to
defending the territorial integrity of the country, they just abandon their
arms and run away.”
Mr. Jawo believes that “until
African armies and other security outfits begin to treat the civil population
with respect and dignity, they will never in turn get the respect and adoration
that they deserve from the people, and as such, their morale and aptitude to
fight will continue to be low.”
He said what is going on in eastern
Democratic Republic of Congo is yet another shameful enigma of African armies
because “it is hard to imagine how a rag-tag rebel army could so easily
over-run Goma, capital of North Kivu from the government army and the so-called
UN peacekeepers, hardly meeting any resistance. Of course, when the rebel says
that they are on their way to Kinshasa, then no one should deny it.”
Such a scenario, he added, has once
again “clearly demonstrated the weakness of African armies.” He said African
armies on the surface appear “brave and capable of defending their countries
against any foreign threats” when most of them in reality are nothing but a
“bunch of cowards ready to flee at the slightest sensing of danger.”
Jawo said such a weakness recently
happened in Mali where the army overthrew the government on the pretext that it
was not doing enough to equip them fight against the Toureg rebels, but only to
run helter-skelter when the rebels approached and within a week of them
[rebels] taking over the country, forcing them to abandon the entire north to
the very rebels.
“We have also seen what is going on
in northern Kenya where a group of lightly armed herdsmen recently wiped out an
entire company of heavily armed Kenyan troops, only for the army to turn their
anger on the civilian population, beating and even killing some in
retaliation,” Jawo observed.]
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 01:10:18 +0100
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [G_L] FW: [G_L] President Morsi writes new constitution
To: [log in to unmask]
Yero, I was not calling you lame but your take on the
issue. Military in Africa is my expertise, eh. Very interesting, but what
is yours expertise then. No pun intended, but what makes you think that is
my expertise and nothing else, I take it that means I should stick to that
and only that and not talk about other issues.Well as we ask in the
military is that a request or an order, as some in African military
mayfind it very arrogant especially after calling me immature. Apologies,
but I am saying "let me hear your take on Africa's
military being that it is your expertise." can be arrogant in
some quarter especially in my "expertise", i.e. in the African
military. Just kidding though, so will give you my take when and if I can
find time. Kind
regards, Kejau >
> Kejau: I am not sure you want to pursue on this lame and lazy line
> eventhough I don't expect you to apologize. All I am pointing to is
that
> you can debate without calling me any name like lame. We have too
much
> humor on these debates added to the fact of taking points that I
won't
> call any genuine person lame. To start to call anyone a name, you
risked
> being called a worst name and not even an ant will tremble from it.
I
> clearly see that not only as immature but defeats the purpose of
debating
> here. Anyway, I won't push hard on that point. let us debate still
and
> clearly no heart feeling. Good job on talking about the courts and
that is
> my expectation. If you dig well, you will notice, most of my forwards
are
> to provoke debates which is the reason why we have these forums.
Those
> open to dialogue can participate with their ideas on some matters
that
> appeal to them. If something doesn't appeal to you, let it pass.
There is
> no need to raise blood pressure on some of these leaders like Morsi.
I
> share Sidia Jatta's views on the Arab spring. You and I have our
problems
> in the Gambia. Some of these leaders you will agree failed. When
jammeh
> came to power, (you as a former Military, Lt. title) attest to the
fact of
> some of these shameful toad-metamorphosis, baby stages in toads.
"You
> could have just forwarded the CNN report and let the readers read
for
> themselves rather than take their side and their story and then
without
> adding any of your own observations critically." Kejau. Kejau:
Don't fail
> to realize that I am equally a reader and entitled to the same basic
right
> you want to accord to other readers. Kejau, in America, there is
> somnething we call 'democracy of the people, by the people and for
the
> people.' A single person uniformed in the presidency shouldn't decide
for
> all. These duck movements and baby steps heads no where but
dictatorial.
> Thanks for input on this one, let me hear your take on Africa's
military
> being that it is your expertise. Best regards,Yero
> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 22:58:12 +0100
>
From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [G_L] FW: [G_L] President Morsi writes new
constitution
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Yero, You wrote "My take is that you wrote that
> if it If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck from the far
> and near, there is no question about it being a duck
> Suntou". Now that is lame and lazy of you in my
> books. In the same vein, you are pointing at what CNN reported
> without critically analyzing the issue being reported. You could have
just
> forwarded the CNN report and let the readers read for themselves
rather
> than take their side and their story and then without adding any of
your
> own observations critically. You see the CNN reports failed to
> report that there are demonstration for and against these moves.
The
> courts, all which were appointed by Mubarak are frustrating all
efforts to
> govern. They dissolved parliament and want to assume the full role of
law
> making as well as interpretation. The president, the only elected
office
> should be the law maker in lieu of the parliament, and the fight for
power
> ensues. Instead of three arms of government, there are two arms
thanks to
> the courts and now who assumes law making, which cannot be left in
> vacuum...If they do not want the president assuming legislative
> powers, they should let the constitution come into effect asap as
well as
> the legislature. Kejau >
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Kejau:
>
>>
>
>> I hope you
>
>> clearly make distinctions between discussions and throwing
>
>> “unsubstantiated accusations”
>
>> as you are trying to label it. As far as I am concerned, the
later is
> far
>
>> from
>
>> it.
>
>>
>
>> If you call
>
>> my points lame, wonder what I should call your points then. Will
you
> take
>
>> double or triple lame? Instead of engaging in the kind of
pettiness
> and
>
>> “flaming”
>
>> of a debate, why not debate your points across. By the way, who
said
> it is
>
>> because of the Muslim brotherhood? Who said it is because the
> western
>
>> media is
>
>> saying this and that? See how your sudden jump on this
won’t
> yield a
>
>> progressive debate if I want to engage you in those
> “unsubstantiated”
>
>> labels
>
>> you are trying to burry yourself in. If I may equally ask: Show
me
> your
>
>> objectivity
>
>> in the lines that you typed above, because I neither mentioned
his
>
>> association
>
>> with the Muslim brotherhood nor did I talk about the Western
> media’s take
>
>> on
>
>> him. Maybe go back over my few lines and come back so we can
continue
> on
>
>> this
>
>> debate.
>
>>
>
>> Thanks for
>
>> your input nonetheless Kejau and here is the debate as far as I
am
>
>> concerned…You are
>
>> stating that people should deal with the real issues yet failed
to
> realize
>
>> that
>
>> something must have happened that triggered citizens of Egypt to
take
> to
>
>> the
>
>> streets. The real issues are what citizens of that country must
have
> seen
>
>> to
>
>> take to T-Square. The history of what we seen from these
so-called
>
>> liberators don’t
>
>> impress us so far. What we have seen is pariahs who falsely
> uniform
>
>> themselves
>
>> in name of liberating the masses and as soon as they step at
the
> door,
>
>> they
>
>> play around the constitution little by little to achieve their
> much
>
>> desired aim
>
>> of ruling with an iron fist.
>
>>
>
>> If I may poke
>
>> your mind, what is the reason that Egyptians took to the
streets
> Kejau?
>
>>
>
>>
>
http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/24/world/meast/egypt-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
>
>>
>
>> [President Mohamed Morsy on Thursday announced
>
>> that courts could not overturn any decree or law he has issued
> since
>
>> taking
>
>> office in June and, beyond that, in the six months until a new
>
>> constitution is
>
>> finalized, his spokesman said on state-run TV.]
>
>>
>
>> ["It's unprecedented, it's unimaginable,
>
>> it's more (power) than Mr. Mubarak ever had," Mohamed
ElBaradei,
> a Nobel
>
>> laureate and head of Egypt's Constitution Party, told CNN.
"This
> is the
>
>> language of a dictator."]
>
>>
>
>> Just before I leave you for the weekend, I
>
>> thought you can add few lines on the below topic as time
permits;
> The
>
>> brutality
>
>> of the African Army.
>
>>
>
>> http://kibaaro.com/?p=4588
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Best regards,
>
>>
>
>> Yero
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 12:42:08 -0600
>
>>
>
>
From: [log in to unmask]
>
>> Subject: [G_L] FW: [G_L] President Morsi writes new
constitution
>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Kejau:
>
>>
>
>> I am missing where you are trying to get to.
>
>>
>
>> You said, "That is so lame." Please explain what you
are
> refering to as
>
>> lame.
>
>>
>
>> Further you said, "...you are supposed to be
> objective..."
>
>>
>
>> Kejau----please explain because I am truly not getting what
you
> are
>
>> refering to as objective or not.
>
>>
>
>> Best,
>
>> Yero
>
>>
>
>> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 19:27:33 +0100
>
>>
>
>
From: [log in to unmask]
>
>> Subject: Re: [G_L] President Morsi writes new constitution
>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>
>>
>
>> Yero,
>
>> That is so very lame. Just because the western media
>
>> labels Morsi as a dictator, he must be one?
>
>> As journalists, you are
>
>> supposed to be objective and get to the bottom of things
before
> jumping on
>
>> the band
>
>> wagon.
>
>> Thanks,
>
>> Kejau
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>> Minister Suntou: Thanks for your input. Not so soon about
> missing
>
>> the
>
>>
>
>>> debate. If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck from the
far
> and
>
>> near,
>
>>
>
>>> there is no question about it being a duck Suntou. While we
are
> on
>
>> this
>
>>
>
>>> one; wondering what your thoughts are on the following:
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
http://www.maafanta.com/SidiaBayoTheNationalTransitionalCouncilOfTheGambiaNTCG.html
>
>>
>
>>> [POST JAMMEH
>
>>
>
>>> REGIME:
>
>>
>
>>> Once it
>
>>
>
>>> achieves its goal of removing Yahya Jammeh’s regime;
the
> NTCG
>
>> will become
>
>>
>
>>> a
>
>>
>
>>> transitional government, which will only last for 2 years]
> Best
>
>>
>
>>> regards,Yero
>
>>
>
>>> > Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 11:16:47 +0000
>
>>
>
>>>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>
From: [log in to unmask]
>
>>
>
>>>> Subject: Re: [G_L] President Morsi writes new
constitution
>
>>
>
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>
>>
>
>>>>
>
>>
>
>>>> The question is, what powers has the President amass?
If
> he
>
>> doesn't have
>
>>
>
>>>> Veto powers, where would the buck stops. I think to be
too
>
>> simplistic in
>
>>
>
>>>> issues like this is missing the debate. The military
> dominates
>
>> and for
>
>>
>
>>>> that to end, someone must be above them. I think
people
> are
>
>> overeacting
>
>>
>
>>>> too soon without examining the underlying reason.
Suntou
>
>>
>
>>>>
>
>>
>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>
>
>>>>
>
>>
>
>>>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 22:43, [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>>
>
>>>>
>
>>
>
>>>> > Really?Just days after Morsi brokered ceasefire
between
> the
>
>> Isrealites
>
>>
>
>>>> and Hamas,came the anouncement that he will change the
>
>>
>
>>>> constitution.The new constitution will give the
president
> more
>
>>
>
>>>> powers.Why did he need more powers for? My question
and
> the
>
>> question
>
>>
>
>>>> most people will ask is has the Arab Spring been
effective?
> Is
>
>> Egypt
>
>>
>
>>>> going back to the Hosni Mubarak era? There is no
question
> that
>
>> such a
>
>>
>
>>>> move on the part of President Morsi is major blow to
the
> concept
>
>> of
>
>>
>
>>>> the Arab Spring.Now let see how critical the West will be
by
> such
>
>> a
>
>>
>
>>>> move.Right now Morsi has the West on his side.He has cut
a
>
>> deal
>
>>
>
>>>> between Isreal and Hamas that resulted into a
ceasefire.
>
>>
>
>>>> > Remember the saying "the devil you is better
than
> the
>
>> devil you dont
>
>>
>
>>>> know"? Stay tune.
>
>>
>
>>>> > hous
>
>>
>
>>>> >
>
>>
>
>>>> >
>
>>
>
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>
>>
>
>>>> > To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of
postings,
> go to
>
>> the
>
>>
>
>>>> Gambia-L Web interface
>
>>
>
>>>> > at:
http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html
>
>>
>
>>>> >
>
>>
>
>>>> > To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to:
>
>>
>
>>>>
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>
>>
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>>>> > To contact the List Management, please send an
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> to:
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>
>>>> >
>
>>
>
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>
>>
>
>>>>
>
>>
>
>>>>
>
>>
>
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>
>>
>
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go
> to
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>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>
>>
>
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>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> --
>
>>
>
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