AMEN!!!!!!!!!
--
Christ is either Lord of all or he is not Lord at all.
Karen Carter '74
> Angel,
>
> Christians are indeed the largest hypocrites around. Why? Because we are
> not perfect yet we preach a gospel that points toward striving to that end
> always as to do our best in our own strength and God graces us in our
> shortcomings. Because we sin ought we then sin purposefully? Paul also
> said no to that one as well. Although we preach and encourage others to
> live upright and righteous, yet we will not attain it in our own doing, we
> ought not give up. Paul also said wretched man that I am, why do I do what
> I do not want to do. Did that stop him from preaching? Did he forsake
> godly values and principles in light of, "Well I'm not perfect so forgive
> me while I do this thing"? Or did he say "Everyone else is sinning, so I
> can too"? How about him saying "Well everyone else is sinning so what kind
> of witness can I be"? Does this seem like godly attitudes? I think not.
>
> So someone decides to eat too much, or drink caffine, what does that have
> to do with living together? Changing focus on the topic does not blur what
> would seem right according to God's Word. Caffeine a sin? I think we are
> losing focus here. We do not base our relation ship with Christ on what
> things appear, but strive towards staying away from evil appearance of
> sin, "because", of our relationship. Do we obey the Word because it is
> law? Or because we love Christ? Jesus said if you love me obey my
> commands. That is pretty simple and straight forward. I'm not certain a
> garden variety Catholic priest nor Protestant reverend, pastor or
> whatever the title, would, in good conscious, bless an engaged couple to
> live together before marriage. And if we are going to interject degrees
> of things, I would add there is also a difference between a male and
> female who have no original feelings for one another living together as
> oppose to two who obviously are headed for a life of marriage and the
> gift of sex it holds. Neither one is right in my opinion, that being
> platonic relationship living together or engaged folks living together as
> we are not to put ourselves purposefully in the path of sin. Seems I saw
> a post of yours stating that earlier??
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> on 07:48 AM 7/21/2005, Angel said:
> I know Christian people who are gluttons as well. Just look at all the
> fat
> people in the church. Do I judge them? Gluttony is a sin according to
> St
> Paul. The body is the temple of the holy spirit and I know Christians who
> drink soft drinks. If a soft drink can clean the porcelain off a toilet
> bole I know I wouldn't want to drink it. I even went to a Christian
> church
> where there was a soft drink machine in the basement of the church of all
> things. The take drugs as well. They are always drinking caffeine. I
> say
> that to say this just what is a good witness. I really don't think we can
> really say what is a good witness for Christ when there are so many
> Christian hypocrites around who do not practice what they preach. There
> are
> a lot of male female room mates who aren't either having sex together or
> contemplating marriage. If people are basing their relationship with
> Christ
> on merely looking at how people around them live and not on their personal
> relationship with Christ they will be building their house on shifting
> sands
> and it will fall. ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brad D" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 7:47 AM
> Subject: Re: question, problem, and prayer request.
>
>
> > Do we have a godly biblical example of living together before marriage?
> It
> > is always best, prudent and wise to bring our situations back to
> scripture
> > no matter how it might cut cross grain to us. Their may be situations
> > today that may not have existed then, but come to think of it not all
> that
> > many. In any event giving the appearance of evil is not only a concern
> for
> > ourselves, in our own conern of what people may think, but also that of
> > all Christians. What if you tried witnessing to a non-believer and they
> > said "Don't talk to me about being high and mighty or living righteous,
> I
> > know a christian couple who lived together before marriage, how does
> that
> > differ from non-Christians today?". You see we bare the responsibility
> of
> > wearing Christ-like across our chest when we are known as such, and
> > appearing as non-believers with a live-in situation doesn't seem to
> line
> > up biblically or doing as the Word says, to stay away from even the
> > appearance of sin, not to mention surposefully put ourselves in
> > temptations way no matter how strong we feel our faith is. Psalms 1
> says
> >
> > Ps 1:1-2
> > Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or
> stand
> > in the way of sinners
> > or sit in the seat of mockers. But his delight is in the law of the
> LORD,
> > and on his law he meditates day and night.
> >
> > Notice the progression of "walk", "stand" and "sit" it cannotes a
> gradual
> > decline if allowed to entertain the ideals of ideals working against
> the
> > law or God's Word.
> >
> > I saw a message somewhere about if one gives in to a principle as such
> > now, how that might affect futre decisoins and ect. I agree. What would
> > make a couple stronger, living together because of life's
> circumstances
> > or arranging other means until that day when no holds are preventing a
> > couple of living as a married one.
> >
> > Brad
> >
> >
> >
> > on 02:47 AM 7/21/2005, Angel said:
> > I agree with you. It seems Christians today think the devil is bound
> to
> > win
> > in every situation. I think if you do live together without falling in
> to
> > sin it will prove to you more than anything else your love for each
> other
> > is
> > not based on mere physical attraction but instead is a heavenly godly
> love
> > which will last through the years. It will also serve as a testament
> of
> > your commitment to god's precepts. I will pray that you be constant in
> > this
> > commitment which I know you will and that your marriage will last as
> long
> > as
> > the firm foundation on which it will be built which is Christ.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jenifer Barr" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 9:36 PM
> > Subject: Re: question, problem, and prayer request.
> >
> >
> > > what is a vow between god and two people? If we have vowed before
> God
> > and
> > > each other that sex will not occur until marriage, then why is
> living
> > > together a sin? We are not intimate until then. I understand about
> > > temptation but that's when you pray every day that God keeps you
> > strong.
> > >
> > > Our situation is unique and it's not like we haven't prayed about
> > it. I
> > > guess I'm just hurt because everyone seems to think that just
> because
> > we're
> > > going to be living together the devel is going to win. God is the
> only
> > one
> > > in control. Is this our ideal situation? no. I've been through
> too
> > much
> > > in the past to know what temptation can do to someone... and i... or
> > yet
> > > we... will not break our vow before god.
> > >
> > > Jenifer Barr.
> > > When the trumpet blows... I'm outta here!
> > > AIM: jenibear1998
> > > msn
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Kathy Du Bois" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 2:06 PM
> > > Subject: Re: question, problem, and prayer request.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hey Jen,
> > > > First of all, I'm sorry that you are dealing with an
> > inflexible
> > > > pastor. I don't see what difference it makes to him whether the
> > cerimony
> > > > is big or small, before or after the civil cerimony. I suppose
> that
> > he
> > is
> > > > standing on something for theological reasons, but I have no clue
> > what
> > > > that
> > > > would be. It seems to me that you are left with three
> > options: switch
> > > > pastors, move the wedding up, or leave things as they are and
> trust
> > God
> > > > for a miracle. As a child of God, the one option that you don't
> > have,
> > is
> > > > to move in together. If you begin your marriage by compromising
> > your
> > > > principles on something that is truly small in the grand scheme
> of
> > > > things,
> > > > how can you be trusted for the bigger ones. Believe me, the one
> > thing
> > > > that
> > > > I am learning about our heavenly Father is that he is extremely
> > creative
> > > > in
> > > > the solution department. We often miss it because we get so stuck
> in
> > > > thinking that the only solutions available to us are the ones that
> we
> > can
> > > > see and we shut the door on His creativity. This is a test. This
> is
> > only
> > > > a test. The question is, will you trust Him and wait for His
> > solution
> > and
> > > > timing or will you continue to see with earthly eyes only what is
> > > > possible. Good luck on your adventure. He is faithful. Your
> task
> > is
> > to
> > > > remain patient and at peace! GRIN!
> > > > Kathy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 05:17 PM 7/18/2005, you wrote:
> > > >>Hi all. As most of you know, i am getting married in november. I
> > found
> > > >>out
> > > >>today from work that they want me to transfer in the beginning of
> > august.
> > > >>I
> > > >>can't tell them i won't transfer then because it is the end of our
> > fiscal
> > > >>year august 31 and i could forfit my job. Problem is though, that
> my
> > > >>fiancee and I decided that to save money... if i had to move in
> > september
> > > >>or
> > > >>october we would just live together until the wedding. We both
> don't
> > > >>really
> > > >>like the idea but it's like we have no choice. I don't know what
> to
> > do.
> > > >>I'm so confused... i don't know what is right and wrong. Both my
> > fiancee
> > > >>and I are born-again Christians, we will in no way have sex before
> > > >>marriage
> > > >>so if we made/make that pledge to god is living together before
> > marriage
> > a
> > > >>sin? Is it wrong? And what do i do if it is? I know of other
> > christian
> > > >>couples who have lived together before marriage. I am just so
> > scattered
> > > >>right now. Please pray for clarity for me? And above all, pray
> Gods
> > will
> > > >>be done.
> > > >>I love you all.
> > > >>Jenifer Barr.
> > > >>When the trumpet blows... I'm outta here!
> > > >>AIM: jenibear1998
> > > >>msn
> > > >>[log in to unmask]
> > > >
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