Bernard Lischer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>0.83 g/kg/d is not "conservative,".......excerpt from the European

>Journal....from a paper ..... by SB Eaton, SB Eaton III and
>MJ Konner.
I see, Eaton is an originator here.

>"Retrodicted protein intake for Paleolithic humans, typically above

>30% of daily energy (table 1), is hard to reconcile with the 12%

>currently recommended for Americans.  The RDA is actually a range,

>0.8-1.6 g/kg/d, which contrasts with 2.5- 3.5 g/kg/d for Stone

>Agers.
Recomputing the protein needs to a percentage of calories makes it
dependent of the total calories ingested, an therefore the amount of
calories per kg weight expected. This depends on the amount
of physical activity and heating.
I'd prefer to express protein needs not in "percentage of calories"
but in "need for amino acids" for building up body proteins.

It may be that paleolithic humans had a *much* bigger protein intake
than RDA, especially the anatomically modern humans , who lived
in the north (Europe) in the years form 30000bc to 5000bc.
Ice age winters left no other nutrition than game and our anchestors
probably went through it for these 25000 years successfully.
Any giving of a protein percentage before that is always an
estimation, based on rather vague assumptions on how much game
was scavenged or hunted or what was gathered in
the african savanne and woods. unsure.

>Observed protein
>intake for other primates, such as chimpanzees, gorillas, baboons,

>and howler monkeys, is also higher than that advocated by human

>nutritionists
>and ranges from 1.6- 5.9 g/kg/d in the wild (Casimir, 1975;  Coelho

>et al, 1976;  Hladik, 1977;  Whiten et al, 1991).
If chimps and gorillas ate so much protein per weight (according to
that reference), how does that correspond to the observations of
Jane Goodall and others what chimps and gorillas eat
(mainly fruit resp leaves)?
Eather the protein ingestion is lower or erraneous, or the fruit and
leaves are very underestimated as a protein source.

> Furthermore, veterinary recomendations....
Well, what some veterinare recomends, i think is not important for us
humans for our nutrition..

>... protein intake habitually tolerated or even
>required by their near relatives."
>....
>"A dietary protein level of 30% total energy may be harmful when the
>diet also includes excessive sodium and insufficient potassium,

>especially if
>operative nutritional and exercise patterns promote obesity.  When
>the individuals involved are lean, normotensive and non-diabetic,

>abundant dietary protein may be beneficial."
So, it may be beneficial or harmful - that 30% energy from protein.
In my previous post only stated that the protein *needs* were rather
low (even lower than RDA) as the experiments show.
In excess of this needs, it may be practicable or even desireable
in some aspects to use the protein as a caloric supply
(it yields glucose through gluconeogenesis).

Because protein can be used as an energy supply, it is plausible that
at some paleolithic times is has been used so - as we now.
I personally prefer a little lower protein, while achieving my
caloric needs through a higher fat intake ( flax and olive fat :-) ).
So i suppose to have less strain on my organs because
the protein to glucose metabolism which produces waste is less used.

>I, personally, aim at around 2 - 3 lbs of meat per day (probably

>averages
>2.25 lbs) and about 3 lbs of vegetables.  This yields between 180

>and 280 g
>of protein.  My weight is a somewhat lean (18% bodyfat) 100 kilos.
Well, you needn't consider the RDA protein recomendations if you
have a differend POV. But maybe the minerals and vitamins
can be important to you.
I'd expect -depending on the quality of the vegetables - that
possibly calcium and Vitamin E maybe low.
Vitamin B1, B2, B6 are enough whith such an amount of meat.
Folic acid and Vitamin C and fibers can easily come from the plants.
Iron and Zinc (and imo purin and protein with its remainders)
may be a little too high.
The fat composition is not visible.
All in all - this looks like a well done paleolithic combination -
and especially overcoming the common vitamin deficiencies.

I've 70 kilos and 12.5% bodyfat here.

regards

Amadeus

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