On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:27:20 -0400, Wade Reeser <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Some is debateable. However, if you accept the savannah origins, there is not
>alot of fruit and vegetable around ......
I think we don't have to debate about pre-savannah-times
Prehumans were fruitarians with a small animal part in the food.
Maybe modelled by chimps with 2-5% animal calories.
The change to savannah (assuming that origin) reduces fruits, but helps with
some new food resources. These are
- roots and onions (availabe through tool sticks)
- nuts and similar tree seeds (recall the !Kung nut trees)
(i recall many different fruit trees types reported from a garden project
in ethiopia, a very sparse , dry r
egion )
- grass seeds
(much "grass"-plants are one-year lasting, which put _all_ of their energy
into it's seed - for next year, that makes them so nutritious)
I read that savannah generates 20 to 30 kg of edible seeds per ha.
- meat of animals which ate the grass
I suppose our former fruitarian choosed to it's best choice of these,
whatever suited best in taste/energy/wellnes/senses......
>.... To me it seems that all evidence, physiological and
>anthropological, points to the consumption of alot of meat.
Example !Kung have from 36% animal to 2% animal part in variation.
!Kung live, like almost all todays h/g's in harsh areas, in which plant foods
are more difficult to get.In a fruitful environment also australian aboriginals
increase their plant intake.
But even in !Kungs' "alot" times they have much less animal protein than the
"normal" western diet (wh
ich is: all protein from meat).
You would even increase that to: "everything from meat"?
>What do you mean by "since our dependency on certain stuffs did not align with
>what is in meat." Can you give me something more substantial that "it is
>obvious."?
Certainly. Average humans needs on some special vitamins are rather high,
so that only animal organs (liver, brain) can satisfy our needs.
That would imply leaving big parts of a given animal carcass untouched -
what some h/g's actually do (or at least prefer).
Especially counting is vitamin C, folic-acid, vitamin B1 , vitamin B6.
If we would have had a very high meat consumption for a very long adaption time
then our bodys would have developed towards smaller needs
(like for ex. Inuit which need only 13 mg Vitamin-C).
Likeweise vitamin-a is toxic and dangerous for us, likewise too much
protein/purin can have ill effects
, this is a missing adaption.
>Two pounds of meat in a day is nothing....
You set protein requirements very high. 1.4 grams per kg!
This made for me-70kg 500 grams cow-muscle per day
OR 550g almonds OR 400gs sunflower seed. We can choose or mix.
>Many athletes consume much more without ill effect. <snip>
Kindey problems come over the years.....
Excess purins, nitrogen and acid (bad balance protein to calcium)
puts stress on one's kindeys. Everybody can decide to think if thats
normal and healthy or not.
>...it is hard to go wrong with liver, brain, marrow and the various
>sweet breads. How can the plant foods compare?
Better taste?
>>I personally feel not attracted to meat, ...
>How? It seems if you had to pick one food item to keep you alive and healthy
>the clear choice would be meat.
Me and you, we don't have to.... fortunately we are not living in
a desert.
>It seems obvious to me ;-) that it would be difficult to collect
>enough seeds and roots day after day to meet even minimal caloric needs.
Read about !Kung, their nuts beat all :-)
>....How do you
>quantify these assertions?
Compare vitamin-b1 and vitmin-e contents of deer and cow.
Cows will put you on a deficiency. Deer may come neerer to a rda.
Especially compare the feared "bad" fats.
Cows and pigs will attack you heart.
Then look at hormone and pesticid remainings. I see big quality differences.
>I think your problem with meat clouds your judgement.
I try to stay objective. Consider it an advantage on
your own judgements to see the whole nutrition thing from a differend POV.
>Remember that this is a paleolithic dieting list. Perhaps your appeals are
>better for a vegitarian natural foods list?
Well I'm interested in true paleolithic nutrition and toda
ys practice
and I think that there are much more interesting things to find
as just to eat meat.
regards Amadeus
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