Ihad a chance to use an Icom 7800 and found that I could use the radio once I lean red my way around the controls. i did not try menu stuff, but it covered the basics I needed in order to operate to work w1aw in alaska from here in NC, a hard job for any station. I can’t say that the radio is as accessible as the latest ken wood stuff, but it is certainly usable. Yaesu could not give a tinker’s damn about blind people, and Ihope we find them going out of business if they do not change their mindset. all they seem to want to do is make mega conster crap. I would never buy another yaws hf rig or mobile because of those problems. and Kenwood does not always gt it right. What moron decided NOT to use speech feedback during remote control operation when the chip is there. Icom made a dual band mobile that was completely accessible and gave over he air speech feedback during remote control operation. . They also screw it up so you get random id’s ou ton 2meters, spamming the repeaters or confusing th shell out of othe repeater users who think you are trying to jump in and then wonder why you don’t reply. I love my tmv71a, but alms wish I had gotten a cheaper dual band rig, and can no longer recommend it for sighted users as ou can get the same features, except for group scan in cheaper dual band models.


Michael Thurman
[log in to unmask]



On Aug 13, 2014, at 5:11 PM, Jim Gammon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Colin, I was going to ask why Yaesu and Icom don't offer the same level of 
> speech accessibility in their rigs if what you are suggesting is the case, 
> they also should do as good a job as Kenwood.  They don't.  maybe they have 
> all started focusing on making highly efficient E-Cigarette machines, and 
> even they should tell you when you are running low on smoking materials 
> and/or battery power.  Interesting stuff.  Jim
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Colin McDonald
> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 2:04 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: accessible scanners
> 
> perhaps it has something to do with Japans laws against distracted driving
> which, I believe, have been in place for a number of years...though perhaps
> not so long as speech chips have been in radios...
> Also, don't forget the market in Japan...1 in 400 people in the country are
> licensed amateurs which is a huge amount for a small country...so putting
> these kinds of devices into radios probably helps sell them.
> Why do the chinese designers add speech to their handhelds?  Another great
> question.
> I wonder if there is a cultural aspect to this where it doesn't occur to the
> designers to not put accessibility because to not put it in, would mean
> ignoring a piece of the market and what business would do such a thing?  Oh,
> right, american businesses who are more worried about getting a product to
> market for the cheapest cost and certain aspects of the consumer market be
> damned hi hi.
> I am more apt to believe there is a strong cultural mind set responsible for
> this though.
> Take smoking in public in Japan for instance.  Smoking is permitted indoors,
> but not on the public street.  This insures that businesses don't lose
> customers, and that no one is offended or injured from smokers on the very
> very crowded and busy public streets.  However, businesses where smoking is
> permitted are required to have very good ventelation and air circulation
> systems in place...much like casino's in Los Vegas.  The mind set here is to
> not punish a business that might lose customers and therefore revenue
> because of a few people who dislike the smell of cigarettes, and also, to
> insure that the vast majority of people are not burnt or otherwise
> inconvenienced or offended while on the public street.  It's far more
> logical to me than the north american, european and australian mind set of,
> lets push all the smokers out on to the side walk where everyone has to walk
> by them and come into contact with them even if they are not going to
> frequent an establishment.
> To me, public responsibility would be to allow people to make a choice about
> going inside an establishment that allows smoking to go on in their
> business, rather than forcing the general public to endure smokers on the
> public street where you have no real choice but to encounter them regularly
> and in groups.
> Each business should have the right to determine weather they allow smoking,
> and those who don't wish to allow it, can accomidate the portion of the
> market that dislikes smoking or the smell etc.
> But we westerners do tend to think about things backwards and not always in
> the best interest of the public or the majority, but rather in the best
> interest of a few who have the loudest voice or the most money to lobby.
> Nivadda doesn't have smoking laws because they know very well it doesn't
> help anyone, but rather harms local business and the economy at large.
> Require proper ventelation and circulation like the japanese and it no
> longer poses a health risk to workers and other patrons.
> But, like many things in history, the powers that be get something in their
> teeth and will not let go or approach it logically after a certain
> point...the communist witch hunts of the 70's in US government spring to
> mind as a good example.
> Anyway, to tie this back to ham radio, I suspect the asian business mind
> uses logic over impatients much of the time and thus tends to have rather
> supperior products more often than not.  Kenwood, Icom, and Yaesu are prime
> examples of high quality, logical and attentive engineering...to build
> something right, and insure it's high quality before slamming it on to the
> market to try and recoop as much as they can before the next newest thing.
> Probably why kenwood tends to be a bit slower on releasing new radio models
> compared to some others.
> 
> sorry for the rant lol
> 
> 73
> Colin, V A6BKX
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Jim Gammon" <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 1:51 PM
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: accessible scanners
> 
>> Colin, I think you should definitely email your great thoughts to Sheri.
>> I
>> do not have an I-Phone or android, but would possibly get one if more
>> devices could link to them that would react to commands from such devices.
>> I have always wondered how and what inspired Kenwood to adopt the policy
>> of
>> making speech output available in their radios when other companies do
>> not.
>> I have tried to find out the answer to this but have not been successful.
>> Jim WA6EKS
>> ----Original Message----- 
>> From: Colin McDonald
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 12:07 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: accessible scanners
>> 
>> Hopefully this new whistler company implements IPhone/android  access via
>> an
>> app into their newest scanners as well...this, in itself, is in very large
>> demand from the general consumer bass, and it also has the added benefit
>> of
>> making the radio accessible to those using voiceover or the android
>> equivalent.
>> You get IPhone app access with the cheapest 2 cent electronic gizmo stuff
>> out of china these days, why can't they put it into a 500 dollar piece of
>> modern technology as well?
>> However, I know, not all of us are going to have a smart phone, or be able
>> to afford one, so building in intigrated accessibility is still the best
>> answer...except that intigrated technology like a speech chip only really
>> applies to a very small percentage of the general consumer market, and
>> even
>> if you add in those very few sited people who might use speech feedback,
>> your still looking at a tiny market...whereas, IPhone access would appeal
>> and apply to a massive portion of the over all consumer market and make
>> the
>> radios competetive with everything else out there that uses some kind of
>> interconnectivity with our mobile devices.
>> In my experience, about 8 out of ten people have either an IPhone or
>> android...adding bluetooth to a scanner has already been done, and it's
>> just
>> one more step to develop the apps to communicate to and from the scanner
>> so
>> one can monitor and program the unit from the smart phone...along with
>> audio
>> of course.
>> And it must be intigrated, not some expensive optional add on...having
>> bluetooth connectivity for audio and data from the scanner would make them
>> far more apealing to drivers as well who can use a bluetooth device to
>> listen to their scanner and possibly display channel or group information
>> where it can be seen instead of having to look down at the unit while
>> driving.
>> Anyway, perhaps I should email my thoughts to this sherry person too.
>> 
>> 73
>> Colin, V A6BKX
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Jim Gammon" <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:23 AM
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: accessible scanners
>> 
>>> Martin and all interested.  I posted some emails to the list
>>> about Whistler Group making their new trunked scanners
>>> accessible.  This is important because Whistler bought the GRE
>>> America PSR scanners when GRE went out of business.  Currently,
>>> Whistler has introduced a scanner very similar to the PSR500
>>> handheld scanner but the speaker is below the keypad rather then
>>> above it.  In any case, Whistler has plans to introduce new
>>> scanners which is why I approached them about adding a series of
>>> beeps at the very least, or at best, adding a plug like Kenwood
>>> has in their rigs so people can buy speech boards to make their
>>> scanners way more accessible.  I talked to a lady named Sheri
>>> Nolan in customer service who told me to write up my ideas and
>>> send them to her then she in turn, would forward them to the
>>> company engineers in Ma.  They are responsible for designing the
>>> new scanners.  That's obviously where the universal design, or
>>> access needs to be introduced, from the ground up.  In my first
>>> email to her, I had put some questions that I originally had
>>> posed to GRE America about their PSR500.  I didn't expect
>>> answers, just thought they might like to see some of the problems
>>> I was facing with that scanner.  What did they do? They wrote me
>>> back with information from the manual that was supposed to answer
>>> my questions.  This included remarks like, just go to the menus
>>> and scroll through them until you get to the one you need.  Of
>>> course I'm para-phrasing, but clearly, the engineers did not get
>>> what I was trying to explain.  After getting that email from
>>> Sheri, I wrote back suggesting that the engineers take their
>>> handheld scanner and just put some tape over the display and see
>>> if they can figure out some work-arounds so they can use it
>>> without seeing the display.  She thought that was a good idea and
>>> sent it on to them.  So far, I  haven't heard back.  I hope that
>>> those of you who are interested would also give input to the
>>> Whistler Group by writing email to Sheri Nolan who's email
>>> [log in to unmask] I recommend trying to keep focused
>>> particularly on accessibility issues for their scanners and
>>> emphasize that there are many people with low or no vision who
>>> would really appreciate it if they would incorporate speech
>>> output or at least a series of different beeps in their up-coming
>>> scanners.  I for one, would like a handheld scanner with onboard
>>> accessibility where you don't have to drag a laptop around in
>>> order to achieve  some degree of access.  73, Jim WA6EKS
>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Martin G.  McCormick" <[log in to unmask]
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Date sent: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:14:28 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: accessible scanners
>>> 
>>>> Another useful feature is when one can communicate with
>>>> a scanner or transceiver via serial interface.  I have two Uniden
>>>> scanners.  One is now eleven years old and has a rather turse
>>>> command set that one can access via a terminal program much the
>>>> way you can access one of the old telephone dial-up modems.  All
>>>> the characters must be upper case and all the replies are also
>>>> in upper case but you can read the display, setup trunking
>>>> systems, etc.  The only problem is that the Motorola SmartZone
>>>> trunking is now unusable since the new rebanded frequency plans
>>>> can not be fed in to the scanner as a flash upgrade since the
>>>> bc780 does not have that capability.
>>>> It is, however, accessible since the command set and
>>>> responses are all plain ASCII text.
>>>> That sort of access is much appreciated.  I also have
>>>> another Uniden which was made around 2008.  It does P25 and the
>>>> new rebanded Motorola trunking just fine.
>>>> It also has an ASCII command set and is potentially
>>>> totally accessible but one needs to either be running one of the
>>>> Windows programs that talk to your scanner or you must be
>>>> willing to write your own communications program in C or perl.  I
>>>> am a Linux user so that is kind of par for the course.
>>>> For the BCD996 and the BCD396, the commands and
>>>> responses are still ASCII but they use CSV or Comma-Separated
>>>> Variable strings.  These are sometimes hugely long lines of text
>>>> in which each field is separated from it's neighbors by a , so a
>>>> string for input or output might look like
>>>> 1,01453500,1,,,3,2,7,K5SRC Stillwater Repeater,14,0,9
>>>> That is not a valid entry anywhere, but it is an example
>>>> of what a CSV string looks like.  You see them all the time in
>>>> business applications that may be used with spread sheets and
>>>> tables.
>>>> One of my next home projects is to take the C program I
>>>> wrote for the BCD996 and try to re-do it in perl as I may get it
>>>> to do more than it presently does.
>>>> I would sure like to see more radios that have some sort
>>>> of electronic input and output like the Kenwoods and several
>>>> others.  To me, that is almost as good as having speech boards in
>>>> the radio which, of course, is the holy grail but may not have
>>>> as much mass appeal as being able to interface with a serial
>>>> port on a computer or maybe a web interface.
>>>> Let's hope that this period of totally inaccessible
>>>> technology is ending and we just might be able to really use
>>>> some of this stuff again.
>>>> I remember the first truly inaccessible piece of amateur
>>>> radio gear I encountered.  It was in the mid seventies and was a
>>>> two-meter transceiver that had an Up and Down button pair for
>>>> frequency, no direct entry and no way to get to a known state
>>>> except for that stupid little LED display.  If you could even get
>>>> it to start at 144.000 MHZ, do you really want to count in 5 KHZ
>>>> steps up to say, 147.925 and hope there were no key bounces or
>>>> missed presses?
>>>> The guy in the store said, I don't think there is any
>>>> way you can use that and he was absolutely right.  Don't you just
>>>> hate that?
>>> 
>>>> 73 Martin McCormick WB5AGZ
>>> 
>>>> Jim Gammon writes:
>>>>>    John, I have been corresponding with the Whistler group
>>> regarding
>>>>> there
>>>>> trunked scanners.  Thought you would like to read the latest.
>>> Jim