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Poll Results on whether what people personally believe about distilled
vinegars from gluten grains(150 people responded as of 1:00pm today
CT):

1.      I believe vinegar distilled from gluten grains are safe, unless
malted. 116 votes (78%)
2.      I doubt that vinegar distilled from gluten grain are safe and avoid
them. 33 votes (22%)

Summary:

One respondent from Australia didn't vote because the problems and
issues they have in his country with vinegar are different from the
U.S.  He mentioned something very interesting that I would like to
quote that shows that there are other products in question that some
celiacs continue to react to even though others claim they are gluten
free:

"Just as an aside to 'your' debate - the same debate is currently
'raging' in Australia over Glucose Syrup.  The coeliac societies here
are stating glucose syrup is gluten free, however, there is a
reasonably large percentage (around 25-30% of diagnosed coeliacs, who
still react to the glucose syrup when made from wheat.)"

Someone else was concerned about my “real purpose” of doing the survey.
 My real purpose was to find out what people personally believe and act
upon.  The purpose of the survey was not prove what is true when it
comes to whether such vinegars are safe or not.

This person was also concerned about whether people’s reactions to
these vinegars were really caused by gluten or from some other
sensitivity the person has that might cause similar reactions. (She
sited as an example that her children get migraines from a number of
different foods.) She also said “many of us have food sensitivities
that really are not related to any specific disease. As for myself, I
do not do well with acidic foods, so I have a tendency to avoid them
the majority of the time. I am not celiac and have been tested several
times.”

She also expressed concerns that my survey may “plant doubts on science
and research.”  Something that someone could misconstrue to be the case
based on the summary presented here.

Another respondent by email stated that they voted for distilled
vinegar being safe even though she still continues to get ill from it
or from something else she is ingesting in the same meals as the
distilled vinegar. “However, I would just like you to know that I can
still feel ill after eating something with certain vinegars. I am not
sure if it is a gluten reaction or something else, or a combination of
things. In recent years I have noticed that certain foods that never
bothered me before can now bother me. I have noticed this reaction with
mustards that I used to consume with no adverse effects. I am only
guessing that part of the problem could be the distilled vinegar used.”

Another respondent wrote that she trusts the words of a particular well
known celiac doctor: “I choose to believe Dr. Peter Green and therefore
feel that distilling gets rid of glutens malt vinegar of course being
the exception.”   This is what my poll is about.... what people believe
and choose to act upon.

One respondent wrote a very bold statement of belief: “If people have a
problem with vinegars (other than malt), it is a problem other than
that of celiac disease.”

I remind everyone that the above is a “statement of belief” and not a
“statement of fact.”  Do not take offense if others claim that your
beliefs are invalid.  There is NO proof to date that the vinegar
doesn’t cause problems to some celiacs simply because they are ultra
sensitive to minute amounts of gluten.  There is only theory that says
otherwise.

Another respondent posted a message that she voted that it was safe:
“However, I mainly use distilled vinegar for household cleaning, as I
use rice or balsamic vinegar for cooking. I do purchase some products
that contain distilled vinegar, but those foods are a very small part
of my diet.”  (Her qualifications suggest that she is willing to trust
it as safe since there is very little of it in her diet anyway.)

Someone else wrote that she doesn’t react to vinegar even though she is
very sensitive to other things containing gluten:  “I treat vinegar as
"safe" (unless malted) for a couple of reasons. One is that I believe
the premise that the gluten is lost in the distillation process. The
other is from empirical evidence. In other words, when I eat foods that
contain it, I have no reaction, but I DO react to gluten. I'm like
[another forum member] in that I use white vinegar for cleaning and
polishing around the house. When I cook or make salads, I use balsamic
or rice vinegars, but I will eat store-bought foods that contain white
vinegar.”

One woman wrote:  “I don't really have an opinion on the subject. I try
to avoid vinegar as much as possible as it aggravates my GERD. I buy
only buy products that are on the safe list here and hope for the best
if they have vinegar in them.”

By far the most enlightening material came from an attached article
from “Gluten Free Living” called “Is Vinegar Safe For Celiacs?
Scientists say Yes!”

The article is also located on our own celiac listserv homepage:
http://www.enabling.org/ia/celiac/vinegar.html

I read the article and still didn’t know how this woman had voted
because she said the article spoke for itself.  So I had to write her
to ask. She voted that such vinegars are safe.  My conclusion on the
article was that the writer wanted me to think it was safe, but I
didn’t agree with the assumptions that were made.  In fact, it made me
feel glad that I had done the survey – because I wondered if I had been
too out of the loop on this subject, and it turns out I have not.
There is still no proof.... it is all speculation and theory.

Although the intent of the article is to convince people such vinegars
are safe, one quote by the Vinegar Institute makes me sit up and take
notice: “Alcohol manufacturers and independent laboratories have tested
alcohol produced from corn and have been unable to detect the presence
of any protein.  While it is possible for white vinegars to be
manufactured from grains other than corn, it is uncommon.  However, we
suggest that gluten-sensitive consumers contact the manufacturer to
ensure the vinegar is gluten free.”  If the Vinegar Institute says we
should make sure it is gluten free, why should I disagree with them?

I wondered about this whole thing of comparing corn protein with wheat
protein and came across one website http://immunology.no/cd/eu/  says
that “Gluten proteins are peculiar since they contain an unusual high
content of glutamine residues, up to 40%.”  I don’t know what that
means at all, except that gluten protein is unusual and it isn’t like
other proteins.  Does this mean that we shouldn’t make any assumptions
about gluten based on studies on corn?  Perhaps.  They don’t appear to
be similar in all cases.   Independent studies should be done on gluten
proteins prior to making hasty decisions on safety.  Currently there is
a study in Oslo on gluten peptides, how they work and how to easily
identify them in food products. Perhaps that will shed some light on
the topic.

Another website, http://www.nowheat.com/fooddb/food/vinegar2.htm, has
an article by Richard Abrams (celiac and retired biochemistry
professor) stating: “Concerning gluten in vinegar, I personally do not
think there is any, at least not enough to have any effect on a
celiac.”

That article says that the amounts would be minute and fall within the
European standards for being GF.  But I personally don’t go by the
European Standard.  Some people are more strict in their diets and
wouldn’t want to ingest it is they new it even had a minute amount.
That is a personal decision.

Abrams clearly ONLY states that he doesn’t *personally* think there is
gluten there.... and if there is, “at least not enough to have any
effect on a celiac”.  Yet the website claims it is proof that these
vinegars are safe for celiacs to consume.

Abrams also mentioned that hypothetically “protein survives the acetous
fermentation, [and] its final concentration is less than 0.035 mg per
liter of the vinegar.”  In other words, based on hypothesis, they
expect some gluten to remain in the product.

He also says that there are “trace dissolved solids in vinegar
(inorganic salts, trace metals, and nitrogenous and other organic
materials).  Total solids in vinegars may approximate several percent,
practically equal to the acetic acid concentration, and there may be
constituents to which some people, celiac or not, are sensitive, but it
is inconceivable to me that a gliadin or a gliadin peptide could be one
of those constitutents.”  He doesn’t state why he can’t conceive of
this though – so this doesn’t personally convince me of anything.  This
is a personal statement made by him as a celiac and scientist, it is
not fact and it is not substantiated.

I am beginning to realize from reading these web pages and emails that
many individuals have put their hope such comments.   The trouble with
making claims like this and preaching safety is that someday we might
find out the theory is wrong.... and someday we might discover that we
personally misled others into making decisions that might affect their
health and wellbeing.

Studies are currently being done on gluten peptides to determine how
they function.  http://immunology.no/cd/eu/

There is no easy way to test for gluten peptides either at this point.
I suppose this is why all the claims are based on theories at best.

We, as celiacs, are basing our health decisions on speculations,
theories, and claims.

Vinegar Institute advises against it - they recommend we consume gluten
free vinegars.

There is no REAL data that anyone has shown me, based on actual testing
on celiacs with gluten peptides and with vinegars distilled with gluten
grains to back it up any claims that it is safe for ALL Celiacs to use
these products.

This is why it is still a controversy.  This is why it is still a
personal decision.  And I hope not one that others force on other
people.  It is very much like claming oats are safe.  Although the
survey we did on oats shows the opposite trend (191 people voted).
About 80% of the people eat oats and 20% don't.  And those numbers
surprised me.

Abigail Bergeron (formerly Neuman)

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