you have not been watching fox news very close, if you had been you'd have
heard about this and about the al queda compound being hit.
but, hey, you have to work and i am home now, so i can watch as much as my
house husband duties will allow.
-----Original Message-----
From: K. Salkin
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: 3/24/2003 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: [joan-list] OT - Warmonger and Peacenik Debate
Eh? Maybe I'm not reading right, because I've gone to CNN, ABC, Fox
and
other news sites and none of them have mentioned the Iraqis executing 7
American POWs. Or have I been mssing something that's right in front of
=
my
nose?=0D
=0D
Must be off to work.=0D
=0D
Kat=0D
=0D
-------Original Message-------=0D
=0D
From: St. John's University Cerebral Palsy List=0D
Date: Sunday, March 23, 2003 21:44:38=0D
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [joan-list] OT - Warmonger and Peacenik Debate=0D
=0D
=0D
and the exections of 7 american p.o.w. s today shows just how nice
saddam=
=0D
actually is. such a person certainly desaerves to have people on our
stee=
ts=0D
supporting him. makes you want to go out and do some more protesting
does=
n't=0D
it.=0D
=0D
=0D
-----Original Message-----=0D
From: Magenta Raine=0D
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: 3/23/2003 7:41 PM=0D
Subject: Fwd: [joan-list] OT - Warmonger and Peacenik Debate=0D
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Hi friends,=0D
I think this piece says just about everything on both sides! ;-)=0D
=0D
Mag=0D
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FACE=3D=0D
=3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0">Hi friends, <BR>=0D
I think this piece says just about everything on both sides! ;-)<BR>=0D
<BR>=0D
Mag <BR>=0D
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:25:17 -0800=0D
From: [log in to unmask]
To: Multiple recipients of *joan-list <[log in to unmask]>=0D
Subject: [joan-list] OT - Warmonger and Peacenik Debate=0D
X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version)=0D
=0D
The following was sent to me by Ann McCormick.=0D
Hope you all enjoy as much as I did. _ Donna=0D
=0D
A WARMONGER EXPLAINS WAR TO A PEACENIK=0D
By Victor Forsythe=0D
=0D
Dedicated to the Love it or Leave it crowd=0D
=0D
PeaceNik: Why did you say we are we invading Iraq?=0D
WarMonger: We are invading Iraq because it=0D
is in violation of security council resolution=0D
1441. A country cannot be allowed to violate=0D
security council resolutions.=0D
PN: But I thought many of our allies, including=0D
Israel, were in violation of more security council=0D
resolutions than Iraq.=0D
WM: It's not just about UN resolutions. The main=0D
point is that Iraq could have weapons of mass=0D
destruction, and the first sign of a smoking=0D
gun could well be a mushroom cloud over NY.=0D
PN: Mushroom cloud? But I thought the weapons=0D
inspectors said Iraq had no nuclear weapons.=0D
WM: Yes, but biological and chemical weapons=0D
are the issue.=0D
PN: But I thought Iraq did not have any long=0D
range missiles for attacking us or our allies=0D
with such weapons.=0D
WM: The risk is not Iraq directly attacking us,=0D
but rather terrorists networks that Iraq could=0D
sell the weapons to.=0D
PN: But coundn't virtually any country sell chemical=0D
or biological materials? We sold quite a bit to Iraq=0D
in the eighties ourselves, didn't we?=0D
WM: That's ancient history. Look, Saddam Hussein is an=0D
evil man that has an undeniable track record of repressing=0D
his own people since the early eighties. He gasses his=0D
enemies. Everyone agrees that he is a power-hungry=0D
lunatic murderer.=0D
PN: We sold chemical and biological materials to a=0D
power-hungry lunatic murderer?=0D
WM: The issue is not what we sold, but rather what=0D
Saddam did. He is the one that launched a pre-emptive=0D
first strike on Kuwait.=0D
PN: A pre-emptive first strike does sound bad. But=0D
didn't our ambassador to Iraq, April Gillespie, know=0D
about and green-light the invasion of Kuwait?=0D
WM: Let's deal with the present, shall we? As of today,=0D
Iraq could sell its biological and chemical weapons to=0D
Al Quaida. Osama BinLaden himself released an audio tape=0D
calling on Iraqis to suicide-attack us, proving a=0D
partnership between the two.=0D
PN: Osama Bin Laden? Wasn't the point of invading=0D
Afghanistan to kill him?=0D
WM: Actually, it's not 100% certain that it's really=0D
Osama Bin Laden on the tapes. But the lesson from=0D
the tape is the same: there could easily be a=0D
partnership between al-Qaida and Saddam Hussein=0D
unless we act.=0D
PN: Is this the same audio tape where Osama Bin=0D
Laden labels Saddam a secular infidel?=0D
WM: You're missing the point by just focusing on=0D
the tape. Powell presented a strong case against Iraq.=0D
PN: He did?=0D
WM: Yes, he showed satellite pictures of an Al Quaeda=0D
poison factory in Iraq.=0D
PN: But didn't that turn out to be a harmless shack=0D
in the part of Iraq controlled by the Kurdish opposition?=0D
WM: And a British intelligence report...=0D
PN: Didn't that turn out to be copied from an out-of-date=0D
graduate student paper?=0D
WM: And reports of mobile weapons labs...=0D
PN: Weren't those just artistic renderings?=0D
WM: And reports of Iraquis scuttling and hiding evidence=0D
from inspectors...=0D
PN: Wasn't that evidence contradicted by the chief=0D
weapons inspector, Hans Blix?=0D
WM: Yes, but there is plently of other hard evidence that=0D
cannot be revealed because it would compromise our=0D
security.=0D
PN: So there is no publicly available evidence of weapons=0D
of mass destruction in Iraq?=0D
WM: The inspectors are not detectives, it's not their=0D
JOB to find evidence. You're missing the point.=0D
PN: So what is the point?=0D
WM: The main point is that we are invading Iraq because=0D
resolution 1441 threatened "severe consequences." If we=0D
do not act, the security council will become an irrelevant=0D
debating society.=0D
PN: So the main point is to uphold the rulings of the=0D
security council?=0D
WM: Absolutely. ...unless it rules against us.=0D
PN: And what if it does rule against us?=0D
WM: In that case, we must lead a coalition of the=0D
willing to invade Iraq.=0D
PN: Coalition of the willing? Who's that?=0D
WM: Britain, Turkey, Bulgaria, Spain, and Italy,=0D
for starters.=0D
PN: I thought Turkey refused to help us unless=0D
we gave them tens of billions of dollars.=0D
WM: Nevertheless, they may now be willing.=0D
PN: I thought public opinion in all those countries=0D
was against war.=0D
WM: Current public opinion is irrelevant. The majority=0D
expresses its will by electing leaders to make=0D
decisions.=0D
PN: So it's the decisions of leaders elected by the=0D
majority that is important?=0D
WM: Yes.=0D
PN: But George Bush wasn't elected by voters. He was=0D
selected by the U.S. Supreme C...-=0D
WM: I mean, we must support the decisions of our leaders,=0D
however they were elected, because they are acting in=0D
our best interest. This is about being a patriot.=0D
That's the bottom line.=0D
PN: So if we do not support the decisions of the=0D
president, we are not patriotic?=0D
WM: I never said that.=0D
PN: So what are you saying? Why are we invading Iraq?=0D
WM: As I said, because there is a chance that they have weapons of
mass=0D
destruction that threaten us and our=0D
allies.=0D
PN: But the inspectors have not been able to find any=0D
such weapons.=0D
WM: Iraq is obviously hiding them.=0D
PN: You know this? How?=0D
WM: Because we know they had the weapons ten years ago,=0D
and they are still unaccounted for.=0D
PN: The weapons we sold them, you mean?=0D
WM: Precisely.=0D
PN: But I thought those biological and chemical weapons=0D
would degrade to an unusable state over ten years.=0D
WM: But there is a chance that some have not degraded.=0D
PN: So as long as there is even a small chance that=0D
such weapons exist, we must invade?=0D
WM: Exactly.=0D
PN: But North Korea actually has large amounts of=0D
usable chemical, biological, AND nuclear weapons,=0D
AND long range missiles that can reach the west=0D
coast AND it has expelled nuclear weapons inspectors,=0D
AND threatened to turn America into a sea of fire.=0D
WM: That's a diplomatic issue.=0D
PN: So why are we invading Iraq instead of using=0D
diplomacy?=0D
WM: Aren't you listening? We are invading Iraq=0D
because we cannot allow the inspections to drag=0D
on indefinitely. Iraq has been delaying,=0D
deceiving, and denying for over ten years, and=0D
inspections cost us tens of millions.=0D
PN: But I thought war would cost us tens of billions.=0D
WM: Yes, but this is not about money. This is about=0D
security.=0D
PN: But wouldn't a pre-emptive war against Iraq=0D
ignite radical Muslim sentiments against us, and=0D
decrease our security?=0D
WM: Possibly, but we must not allow the terrorists=0D
to change the way we live. Once we do that, the=0D
terrorists have already won.=0D
PN: So what is the purpose of the Department of=0D
Homeland Security, color-coded terror alerts, and=0D
the Patriot Act? Don't these change the way we live?=0D
WM: I thought you had questions about Iraq.=0D
PN: I do. Why are we invading Iraq?=0D
WM: For the last time, we are invading Iraq because=0D
the world has called on Saddam Hussein to disarm,=0D
and he has failed to do so. He must now face the=0D
consequences.=0D
PN: So, likewise, if the world called on us to do=0D
something, such as find a peaceful solution, we would=0D
have an obligation to listen?=0D
WM: By "world", I meant the United Nations.=0D
PN: So, we have an obligation to listen to the United=0D
Nations?=0D
WM: By "United Nations" I meant the Security Council.=0D
PN: So, we have an an obligation to listen to the=0D
Security Council?=0D
WM: I meant the majority of the Security Council.=0D
PN: So, we have an obligation to listen to the majority=0D
of the Security Council?=0D
WM: Well... there could be an unreasonable veto.=0D
PN: In which case?=0D
WM: In which case, we have an obligation to ignore=0D
the veto.=0D
PN: And if the majority of the Security Council does=0D
not support us at all?=0D
WM: Then we have an obligation to ignore the Security=0D
Council.=0D
PN: That makes no sense.=0D
WM: If you love Iraq so much, you should move there.=0D
Or maybe France, with all the other cheese-eating=0D
surrender monkeys. It's time to boycott their wine=0D
and cheese, no doubt about that.=0D
PN: I give up!=0D
*************=0D
=0D
To unsubscribe from this list or to make any changes to your=0D
subscription,=0D
please send an e-mail message to: [log in to unmask]
=0D
Visit the Joan Baez Web Pages at: http://www.joanbaez.com=0D
=0D
=0D
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