>jean-claude,
>
> > The fact that scientific perceptions became shared by many doesn't make
>> it more real.
>
>I disagree. Verifiability is the test we use to distinguish
>hallucinations from reality.

The reality that you are talking about is in fact an ever changing continuum
of manifestations.

 Some of those manifestations are very short live limited in space and time
and will
not be subject to reproduction .

For example i wake up from a coma experiencing myself in 3 differentes
places at the same time . I assure you that the perception of it was as real
to me in that moment than more common experiences that i can have in my
dailylife. On your term i was hallucinating.

Others have a life span in time or less limited in space ,   allowing a sens
of continuity of the phenomenon  to the observer but in reality the
experience of its perception will never be the same ever . The observer and
the observed being  in a continuous state of change.
scientific mindset have a tendancy to crystallise , formalise life
phenomenons  giving a sens of CONTROL to the observer.
It is interesting to note that sciences have more credibility when they
observe more long lasting phenomenon like gravity or physical laws and less
and less when the domaine of observation is of less physical nature like in
psychology , anthropology etc...

For our purpose there is a kind of satisfaction at reducing nutrition to
more controlable parameters like a food is composed of a number of nutrients
in a specific quantity. But it is far from representing the REALITY of that
food.
That ephemeral  REALITY  is only accessible in the present moment thru the
synergism of my senses ,  by the experience  of the interaction of the
complex  vibrant  nature of the food with the complex vibrant receptive
nature of my body at that moment.

>
>You can deny reality if you choose, but if you choose to accept that the
>word "reality" has any meaning then you must accept *at the very least* the
>idea that mutually shared hallucinations are more real than private
>hallucinations.

In the sens that shared illusions have more effects that a solitary one .,
yes.
i don't deny the power of the reality that you are talking about ( just look
at the effects of the nazis's  shared perceptions  during the last war. and
lot of those perceptions were based on science ).
I just deny that in the absolute it have any power. It have power only if
you believe it is real.

look at the power of the low fat high carbohydrate idea , had on a whole
nation of peoples overweighted or fearing to be so , and this idea was based
on science .

Hans wrote
<And what forum is this list? Paleodieters Philosophy Forum ?

yes Hans we are soon to realise that we are in fact eating ideas instead of
the real stuff.
to get more  real and earthy , i send you some kale seeds. they are very
verifiable, you sow them they sprout and you eat, you cut the leaves and
they continue to grow and have more to eat. With some love they are close to
be an eternal reality.

jean-claude