>>> Part 1 of 2...

 Md> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
 Md> Date: Sat, 30 Mar 1996 21:46:54 -0800
 Md> From: "Thomas E. Billings" <[log in to unmask]>
 Md> To: [log in to unmask]
 Md> Subject: veg-raw: re: too much protein

 Md> in a recent post, [log in to unmask] presented some
 Md> ideas on
 Md> protein. I have some comments on her post, as follows...
 Md> Let me begin by saying that I'm not in favor of eating large amounts
 Md> of protein; my comments mostly concern claims made in the post.

 Md> I have read in a number of places that the human body replaces all its
 Md> cells in a year.

    Any credible references??  I seem to remember that different
organs turn themselves over at different rates: important ones like
the heart, blood, and liver do so quickly, and the bones a lot slower.
 Does anyone have the figures for different organs??

 Md> This means that, say, a 150 pound adult grows 150 pounds of
 Md> new cells a year.

    No it doesn't, a major portion of protein, about 70%, is recycled
internally.
    "It has been estimated from isotopic tracer experiments that in a
70kg man on an average diet about 400g of protein turns over each day.
Up to 1/4 of this amount undergoes oxidative degradation or conversion
into glucose and is replaced daily from exogenous intake; the
remaining 3/4 is recycled."  [Lehninger, Biochemistry]

 Md> the baby produces 0.1 pound of new cells per day, an adult 0.5 pounds!
 Md> The adult produces *more* cells than the fast growing baby! (Given the
 Md> relative size difference, 150 vs 40 pounds, it's not surprising).

    That's why one should normalize protein needs on a per pound
basis, and not consider the total quantities for beings of quite
different size as you attempt here.

 Md> Further, the baby eats several times daily, while adults eat only say,
 Md> 3 meals
 Md> per day. This suggests that the baby eats more food on a weight
 Md> adjusted basis, i.e., that the baby eats more food per pound of
 Md> individual body weight.

    Hmmm...  Now you shift to normalized weight when it supports your
hypothesis, or does it??  My point, which you are now supporting here,
was that the baby eats more protein _per pound of body weight_;
therefore, the adult needs _less_.
    The three meal a day model was probably a result of convenience of
the work place as the Industrial Revolution destroyed a more natural
lifestyle.  Plant-eating animals tend to nibble throughout the day,
and most serious dietary reformers eventually discover the same thing;
especially raw-fooders.  We should eat when hungry, not because 'it is
time to eat'.
    Notice that my analysis leads to an appropriate and digestible
_concentration_ of protein in the overall adult diet.

> Modern nutritional research now admits that the adult's need for
> protein is about 1/3 of the infant's, so the adult needs only about
> 1/3% of protein in its overall diet to adequately meet its needs.
> More than than that leads to indigestion and the creation of toxins
> that lay the foundation for many diseases commonly accepted as "normal".

 Md> Since you claim modern research supports your view, perhaps you could
 Md> list the *specific* references?

    Any table of RDA's published by the Food and Nutrition Board of
the National Academy of Science-National Research Council.

 Md> The numerous healthy raw fooders who consume substantial amounts of
 Md> sprouted
 Md> grains, seeds, nuts appear to verify that said (high protein) foods
 Md> are appropriate and are not as harmful as one might think from reading
 Md> your post.

    I'd think that what you are referring to would be transitional raw
fooders, those in the initial stages, which might last years, of
detox.  For instance, in my first two meatless years, I ate lots of
nutbutters and almonds and was oblivious to the mucus they were
creating because I was so clogged up with the previous 29 years of
slime I had due to the SAD.  It was only after a very long period of a
raw diet that I began noticing the problems associated with eating
nuts/seeds.  Hippocrates Health Institute paid lip service to these
digestive difficulties with an even more absurd approach: "seed
cheese"
    Yes, sprouting is useful, in part, because it reduces the protein
content of, for example, mung beans from 24.2% dried, to 3.8%
sprouted. [USDA#8]

 Md> I do agree that some high protein foods, such as sprouted legumes, can
 Md> be difficult to digest. Because of that one must exercise discretion in
 Md> consuming them.

    My point, exactly: IF the sprouts are difficult, the unsprouted
ones would be even worse.  Most people eat them unsprouted _and_
cooked.  My experience and claim is that it is the concentrated
protein that is the major problem.
    A useful approach to "discretion" in choice of 'foods' would be to
avoid that which can not be eaten raw as a full meal; meal after meal
after meal.

 Md> On a related note, I would comment on your use of milk as a model for

 >>> Continued to next message...