Tom:
<< I don't see raw as a social movement, more of a health movement. >>

I guess I still don't understand your use of the word movement.  I'm thinking
even if its a health movement, as you say above, it is a vehicle with a
specific agenda to change something - in our case something related to health.
In other words, in my mind if its a movement, it has a message to change
something - health related or otherwise - and it offers a proposal for what to
change to.

This could be perceived as a really useless theoretical discussion about
semantics - and that is not my intent. I am intetested in wether or not there
could possibly be such a thing as a raw-foods movement, or is it more
appropriately envisioned as a more general healthy-eating movement, and a
vision of what it would look like. If I can envision such a thing, I could get
excited about helping to give it life. I do care very deeply about helping
people to reclaim their health, and an organized 'movement' could reach many
more people in a more powerful way than I can do in my own little world.

Just off the top of my head - there could be groups started all over, a
network of newsletters, area and regional and national and international
conferences, workshops, coalition-building among all the competing /
cooperating splinter groups  you referred to, having celebrations (important),
better organization of making speakers available everywhere, bringing together
the various leaders to build on each others efforts, making use of the
internet as the incrediblely useful tool that it is, giving it more of a
'face' with slogans (sounds stupid but every movement I've ever known about
has made use of slogans as a powerful tool) and images and icons and T-shirts
and posters and stuff (I hope I don't get slaughtered here for these
suggestions - this is feeling a little like suggesting that Catholics or
Buddhists make bumper stickers with catchy slogans).

I'm sure I could think of many other ways to help such a thing grow - if I
could see that there was a clear agenda.

<< Note the use of the word "appropriate" in my statement. That word is
significant, for I have often written that: raw is not for everyone, and is
not a cure-all. >>

You and I certainly are in complete agreement on this. My question is, why use
raw-foods as the main focus, if we really want to say something else entirely?

<< Health is always more important than dogma........In the long run, the
record of raw vegan diets is frankly not so great. Still, in general, people
tend to be healthier on unprocessed/simple diets (including raw foods) than on
highly processed foods (which are usually cooked). >>

Yes - well maybe. But this isn't really a clear message that says "Eat raw
foods." What this says is, "Eat raw foods if they seem to help, but not vegan,
and certainly not for the long haul since most people don't seem to be able to
keep to this for a variety of reasons, and unprocessed is usually (not always,
but usually) better, because usually that means its not cooked, but not
always, and some people seem to thrive on cooked foods anyway."

It's hard to promote a movement with a message like this, its just not clear
enough imo.

<< That is, the principles of raw are of (some) relevance in the long term as
well.>>

I'm not nearly as well-read on raw foods as I should be, so please excuse me
if this is a really ignorant question, but what are the principles of raw? Is
there more to it than just "raw food is good for you?"

<< these folks like an open, HONEST approach - an approach that is is non-
fanatical, and realistic.  Finally, such an approach has great appeal to the
general public - they contrast it with the fairy-tale "raw paradise" claims of
the fanatics, who look very, very bad in comparison. >>

You and I have been travelling in different circles.  I haven't had much
contact with the fringe-diet (for lack of a more complimentary word)
subcultures, so I'm not too concerned about the impact the idiotic NFL and
other crazies have had on these folks.  My contact has been with regular
'mainstream' working people with families, who have had exposure to different
diet fads primarily through TV, magazines, books, and a little bit through the
New-Age or health-food-store channels. People here have no interest,
tolerance, or respect for dishonest snake-oil salesmen. Not to worry.

Looking forward to your comments.

Love Liza

[log in to unmask] (Liza May)