Sandy, about MacDougall's 3-pieces-a-day limit. I think that might be going
 overboard too much in the other direction. Of course if one is eating
 MacDougall-style they would be loading up on lots of starches, so in that
 situation you would already be getting a high percentage of starches/carbs
 in the diet, thus you might well want to limit the fruit a bit more than otherwise.

Actually, come to think of it, I suppose I may eat a bit more
 MacDougall-style these days than natural hygiene-style, in that I have cut
 back on the fruits from what I used to do. But I have to get some energy
 from somewhere, and without the fruits, the only way I have (so far) been
 able to do it is to make up for the lost fruit with a fair amount of starch
 stuff (grains, yams, etc.) or I just don't have any energy.

My own fruit consumption now is maybe 2 apples in the a.m. most mornings
 plus half the days out of a week perhaps 2-3 oranges for lunch with other
 stuff, and then usually 2-3 handfuls of grapes mixed with yogurt befor
 bed. And maybe half the nights (after running workouts) I will wake up for
 a 4:00-5:00 a.m. snack of a half or whole banana. That's about the extent
 of my fruit consumption these days.

One thing I find, though, is that for me trying to over-manipulate amounts
 of fruits, starches, proteins, fats, etc., is like playing that children's
 game where if you push a button down in one place, another one pops up
 somewhere else and you just can't fool the system. I've tried cutting WAY
 back on fruits, but then I go berserk for starchy carbs. If I cut the
 starchy carbs too much, then my craving for fruit goes back up. If I eat
 more dense, lower-water-content protein foods, then my craving for starches
 may go down but I feel the need for more juicy succulent fruits. Same for
 fats to some degree.

On a related note, Melinda, my mate, has had good luck with the zone-style
 diet energy-wise, and while the research is still controversial, Peter
 Brandt's relaying of xeroxes and other research on diets like this higher
 in fat/protein with lower carbs (which actually more closely resembles our
 ancient Paleolithic diet than the natural hygiene diet) have got me to the
 point I may be experimenting with a higher level of fat and protein to see
 how that affects my energy levels. In which case I may be eating a bit more
 fruit now, but a whole lot less starchy carbs. We'll see what happens.

--Ward Nicholson <[log in to unmask]> Wichita, KS