On Wed, 24 May 2000 17:02:25 -0700, Eric Armstrong
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:


>Sharp Stick?
>-----------
>The first assumption I'd like to question is whether "a sharp
>stick" is the only critereon for what makes a paleo food.
>.. The use of fire began somewhere
>near the middle of paleo times, yes?

Some found fireplaces indicate know of fire abt 500ky back
(1/4 of ice age). Does this indicate frequent use?
Or the ability to start a fire?

> So burning a hunk of meat
>over a fire didn't seem to impact man's health any.
Or the cancerogenous substances it creates, didn't impact the
heath in quantity big enough in an age low enough to influence
reproduction. Loss of 5% of the population due to cancer in an age of 40
would certainly have been without effect.
Jared Diamond writes that >40k years back few people lived longer than
40 years anyway.

>That gives "a sharp stick and a fire" then. Next, I wonder: Were
>there no clay bowls or other pottery artifacts?
Pottery is clearly neolithic, only 12k years old.
It should have been too difficult to carry around a piece of ceramic.
And these people (our anchestors) *had* to move around.


>So it seems reasonable to assume that
>the paleo diet consists of anything you can make edible using a
>sharp stick, fire, and a pot of hot water.
Dont forget, you need some stone tools to sharpen the stick,
break bones, cut the carcass, especially the skin.
The pot of water may at most have been a skin, filled with some
hot stones (ancient cooking method). Probably not too hot and not usable
too often.

>In particular, in a diet that
>is otherwise "paleo" in nature, does it make sense to include:
>  * corn
>  * rice
These are grass seeds, breeded to extreme fruitful variations.
They are condemned because of some antinutrients, that make them
a food, edible raw, or with little technology of stone age level.
But not in quantity or as a staple - as long as the technology didn't
exist, that made them a 7000years proofed food now
(malting, soaking, germination, fermentation, sourdough baking).
There *are* shure signs that cereals (and legumes) have been eaten
in paleolithic (at least mesolithic) times or by other primates.
There are some interesting discussion about these in the archives,
also of paleodiet. I remember a posting of Ruediger Hoeflechner about it.
A good reading is the "draft" of Loren Cordain's
book which was available by private email, i think through Don Wiss.
>  * potatoes
>  * beans
Similar than cereals.
>
>Starchy Vegetables
>------------------
Of course there *are* starchy vegetables, which are *not* cereals
or legumes edible raw or soaked in can be considered paleo.

Buckwheat (70% starch), quinoa are such. Bananas too.
Even cereals of the right type,whole and proper prepared are IMO half-paleo.

I think its wron to condemn all carbohydrates or starches as a whole.
It may be appropiate for a slightly or beginning diabetic
(which are a big percentage i assume).
The carbohydrates have to be of the right type.
I use as an indicator if they have at least 3mg thiamin per 1kg
carbohydrate.

Primates come from a fruit eating background.
Starches deliver long-term eqsily storable and quantity carbohydrates.
When brain needs 25% of humans resting energy *as carbohydrate*
and brain size doubled or x-fold in the past 2mio years, then the
carbohydrate requirements will have increased likewise.
That demands a stable and big supply.
At last the bred cereal variations provided a secure supply.
But un-cereal versions (probably lower in antinutrients) are available
too to paleo-eaters.
Paleo-food is low octane, how Ben expressed it nicely.
You have to eat more volume or weight, and this is good for the purpose
to increase fiber and micronutrients.

>Question #1:
>  Do they really have to be soaked, or can they be merely rinsed?
Where is the problem for paleo-people to soak something.
Containers are easily thinkable and known.
!Kung do have to process their mongongo nuts heavily to remove some
bitter coating. Still they are their main staple.

cheers

Amadeus
(I'm a software man like you and similar involved with nutrition discussions
for many years)