Also, hasn't anything turned up about communication devices for the girl? Or is she too "deficient" to use one?
---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 17:12:45 -0600
>From: "Kendall D. Corbett" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: girl in UK hyster and apedix
>To: [log in to unmask]
>
>Ok, I'll try not to yell, but I agree this is something that rightly elicits
>emotion. In my previous response, I _was not_ defending the decision of the
>mother in the UK, merely pointing out that she wasn't suggesting treatment
>as drastic as "Ashley X's" parents advocated. That's why I used the
>"slippery slope" analogy. We see the treatment that "Ashley" received as
>horrifying, but the treatment of the young woman in the UK is not _as_
>horrifying. Who draws the line, and where is that line drawn? When I was
>in high school, I had a similar discussion with my mom about this; when
>Janet and I started to date seriously, I revisited that discussion with my
>sister (my mom had started to show the effects of Alzheimer's, so wasn't
>able to discuss it), and we agreed that Mom wasn't very "enlightened" on the
>subject, hence my comment that it might be easier for Janet's family than
>mine, in an earlier post:
>
>>My dad was one of those "well educated imbeciles" until I was born, and
>then he quickly >learned that people with CP could, and should, be expected
>to do the same things others do.
>
>
>
>On 10/8/07, ken barber <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> i am not sure it sould be discussed without emotion.
>>
>> --- Joy Liebeskind < [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> > THERE IS A VERY THIN LINE BETWEEN THIS & THE ASHLEY
>> > X CASE. THE
>> > ATTITUDE IS STILL THERE AS TO AN Y ONE PERSONS
>> > VALUE. IN A CHILD WITH
>> > A DIAPER CARE WHEN THEY HAVE A PERIOD IS NO BIG
>> > THING! JUST A LAZY
>> > CARE-TAKER! WHO WILL DECIDE WHO THIS IS OK FOR & WHO
>> > NOT? LOOK AT MANY
>> > ADULTS WHOSE PARENTS PUT THEM IN INSTITUTIONS MANY
>> > YEARS AGO WHO AS
>> > THEY HAVE BEEN CLOSED HAVE COME OUT & ARE LIVING IN
>> > THE COMMUNITIES
>> > NOW? THIS IS A VERY SORE TOPIC- I FIND THE Ashley
>> > X case sickening-
>> > look at little hints as to that families attitude-
>> > they hide the faces
>> > of siblings, but not hers! They wanted to keep her
>> > small for their
>> > benefit- not hers. Do away with all hormones & you
>> > get weak bones,
>> > heart issues- and many other problems. I'm not
>> > sure this can be
>> > discussed without emotions-- Joy
>> >
>> > On Oct 8, 2007, at 5:57 PM, Kendall D. Corbett
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Kristina,
>> > >
>> > > What is troubling to me (and many others, I'm
>> > sure) is the "slippery
>> > > slope"
>> > > argument surrounding sterilization for someone
>> > with a disability. If a
>> > > person who is as severely disabled as the girl in
>> > the UK is sterilized,
>> > > where is the line drawn for others with
>> > disabilities?
>> > >
>> > > I don't see this one as being as scary as the
>> > "Ashley X" situation in
>> > > the
>> > > US, where "Ashley's" parents also had her breast
>> > buds removed, and
>> > > other
>> > > growth attenuation procedures performed, but it
>> > does make me wonder
>> > > where
>> > > the line will finally be drawn.
>> > >
>> > > Several states performed involuntary
>> > sterilizations of people with
>> > > disabilities, including the state where my mother
>> > (and later my wife)
>> > > grew
>> > > up. When my mom was going through nurses
>> > training, she worked at the
>> > > "Hospital School," where children with severe
>> > disabilities were
>> > > educated and
>> > > provided health care services. My wife was later
>> > a student there for a
>> > > little bit when she was in grade school, since in
>> > the mid 60's, many
>> > > small
>> > > towns in that state didn't have access to the
>> > needed services for kids
>> > > with
>> > > disabilities locally. Since my wife wasn't a
>> > "permanent" resident at
>> > > the
>> > > school, and her parents would never have
>> > consented, it wasn't an
>> > > issue for
>> > > her, But even in the 50's and 60's there were
>> > families who felt they
>> > > couldn't adequately meet the needs of their child
>> > with a disability.
>> > > In
>> > > these cases the children became "wards of the
>> > state," so that they
>> > > could
>> > > meet the financial requirements to receive state
>> > services. It's
>> > > families in
>> > > these circumstances that I worry about. In
>> > Wyoming, and other states,
>> > > there
>> > > is presently a "push" to re-open or re-populate
>> > institutions for
>> > > people with
>> > > disabilities. This push is based on the perceived
>> > "need" to keep
>> > > people who
>> > > work at these institutions employed, and a thinly
>> > veiled attempt to
>> > > provide
>> > > people with disabilities and their families
>> > another "choice" of service
>> > > provision.
>> > >
>> > > I realize that this must be an agonizing decision
>> > for parents of
>> > > children
>> > > with disabilities, but feel that in all cases, we
>> > should err on the
>> > > side of
>> > > the least permanent option possible.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 10/8/07, [log in to unmask]
>> > < [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> I had a hysterectomy and the doctor said she
>> > might take my apendix
>> > >> (but
>> > >> did
>> > >> not) Just to avoid it if it latter had
>> > problems... I was OK
>> > >> with that. It
>> > >> is not something you can't live without and it
>> > may save surgery
>> > >> later.
>> > >>
>> > >> As to the hyster for the girl. I am all for it.
>> > But the mother can
>> > >> do meds
>> > >> to stop period. But I have been on the shot and
>> > it made me sick...
>> > >> so I
>> > >> say
>> > >> go with pills. But I can understand wanting it
>> > stopped by
>> > >> hysterectomy.
>> > >> That way when the mother dies in years to come at
>> > least the girl
>> > >> can't
>> > >> end up
>> > >> pregant in a care home somewhere. Which is what
>> > I worry about with
>> > >> my
>> > >> own
>> > >> girl... who is very pertty. SO I REALLY worry..
>> > no that some sick
>> > >> man
>> > >> would
>> > >> care if they are pertty. Here in the US we hear
>> > about someone being
>> > >> in a
>> > >> coma
>> > >> or something and having a baby about every
>> > year.... just think how
>> > >> many
>> > >> we do
>> > >> not hear about.
>> > >>
>> > >> Plus.... I work in a hospital and see older
>> > family members come to our
>> > >> department with diaper soaked and all over the
>> > bed.... at least
>> > >> without
>> > >> the period
>> > >> it would not add to the mess.
>> > >>
>> > >> Just my thoughts.
>> > >> kristina
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> ************************************** See what's
>> > new at
>> > >> http://www.aol.com
>> > >>
>> > >> -----------------------
>> > >>
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>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Kendall
>> > >
>> > > An unreasonable man (but my wife says that's
>> > redundant!)
>> > >
>> > > The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
>> > the unreasonable one
>> > > persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
>> > Therefore, all
>> > > progress
>> > > depends on the unreasonable man.
>> > >
>> > > -George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950
>> > >
>> >
>> === message truncated ===
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
>--
>
>
>Kendall
>
>An unreasonable man (but my wife says that's redundant!)
>
>The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
>persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
>depends on the unreasonable man.
>
>-George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950
>
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>
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