Also, hasn't anything turned up about communication devices for the girl? Or is she too "deficient" to use one? ---- Original message ---- >Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 17:12:45 -0600 >From: "Kendall D. Corbett" <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: Re: girl in UK hyster and apedix >To: [log in to unmask] > >Ok, I'll try not to yell, but I agree this is something that rightly elicits >emotion. In my previous response, I _was not_ defending the decision of the >mother in the UK, merely pointing out that she wasn't suggesting treatment >as drastic as "Ashley X's" parents advocated. That's why I used the >"slippery slope" analogy. We see the treatment that "Ashley" received as >horrifying, but the treatment of the young woman in the UK is not _as_ >horrifying. Who draws the line, and where is that line drawn? When I was >in high school, I had a similar discussion with my mom about this; when >Janet and I started to date seriously, I revisited that discussion with my >sister (my mom had started to show the effects of Alzheimer's, so wasn't >able to discuss it), and we agreed that Mom wasn't very "enlightened" on the >subject, hence my comment that it might be easier for Janet's family than >mine, in an earlier post: > >>My dad was one of those "well educated imbeciles" until I was born, and >then he quickly >learned that people with CP could, and should, be expected >to do the same things others do. > > > >On 10/8/07, ken barber <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> i am not sure it sould be discussed without emotion. >> >> --- Joy Liebeskind < [log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> > THERE IS A VERY THIN LINE BETWEEN THIS & THE ASHLEY >> > X CASE. THE >> > ATTITUDE IS STILL THERE AS TO AN Y ONE PERSONS >> > VALUE. IN A CHILD WITH >> > A DIAPER CARE WHEN THEY HAVE A PERIOD IS NO BIG >> > THING! JUST A LAZY >> > CARE-TAKER! WHO WILL DECIDE WHO THIS IS OK FOR & WHO >> > NOT? LOOK AT MANY >> > ADULTS WHOSE PARENTS PUT THEM IN INSTITUTIONS MANY >> > YEARS AGO WHO AS >> > THEY HAVE BEEN CLOSED HAVE COME OUT & ARE LIVING IN >> > THE COMMUNITIES >> > NOW? THIS IS A VERY SORE TOPIC- I FIND THE Ashley >> > X case sickening- >> > look at little hints as to that families attitude- >> > they hide the faces >> > of siblings, but not hers! They wanted to keep her >> > small for their >> > benefit- not hers. Do away with all hormones & you >> > get weak bones, >> > heart issues- and many other problems. I'm not >> > sure this can be >> > discussed without emotions-- Joy >> > >> > On Oct 8, 2007, at 5:57 PM, Kendall D. Corbett >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Kristina, >> > > >> > > What is troubling to me (and many others, I'm >> > sure) is the "slippery >> > > slope" >> > > argument surrounding sterilization for someone >> > with a disability. If a >> > > person who is as severely disabled as the girl in >> > the UK is sterilized, >> > > where is the line drawn for others with >> > disabilities? >> > > >> > > I don't see this one as being as scary as the >> > "Ashley X" situation in >> > > the >> > > US, where "Ashley's" parents also had her breast >> > buds removed, and >> > > other >> > > growth attenuation procedures performed, but it >> > does make me wonder >> > > where >> > > the line will finally be drawn. >> > > >> > > Several states performed involuntary >> > sterilizations of people with >> > > disabilities, including the state where my mother >> > (and later my wife) >> > > grew >> > > up. When my mom was going through nurses >> > training, she worked at the >> > > "Hospital School," where children with severe >> > disabilities were >> > > educated and >> > > provided health care services. My wife was later >> > a student there for a >> > > little bit when she was in grade school, since in >> > the mid 60's, many >> > > small >> > > towns in that state didn't have access to the >> > needed services for kids >> > > with >> > > disabilities locally. Since my wife wasn't a >> > "permanent" resident at >> > > the >> > > school, and her parents would never have >> > consented, it wasn't an >> > > issue for >> > > her, But even in the 50's and 60's there were >> > families who felt they >> > > couldn't adequately meet the needs of their child >> > with a disability. >> > > In >> > > these cases the children became "wards of the >> > state," so that they >> > > could >> > > meet the financial requirements to receive state >> > services. It's >> > > families in >> > > these circumstances that I worry about. In >> > Wyoming, and other states, >> > > there >> > > is presently a "push" to re-open or re-populate >> > institutions for >> > > people with >> > > disabilities. This push is based on the perceived >> > "need" to keep >> > > people who >> > > work at these institutions employed, and a thinly >> > veiled attempt to >> > > provide >> > > people with disabilities and their families >> > another "choice" of service >> > > provision. >> > > >> > > I realize that this must be an agonizing decision >> > for parents of >> > > children >> > > with disabilities, but feel that in all cases, we >> > should err on the >> > > side of >> > > the least permanent option possible. >> > > >> > > >> > > On 10/8/07, [log in to unmask] >> > < [log in to unmask]> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> I had a hysterectomy and the doctor said she >> > might take my apendix >> > >> (but >> > >> did >> > >> not) Just to avoid it if it latter had >> > problems... I was OK >> > >> with that. It >> > >> is not something you can't live without and it >> > may save surgery >> > >> later. >> > >> >> > >> As to the hyster for the girl. I am all for it. >> > But the mother can >> > >> do meds >> > >> to stop period. But I have been on the shot and >> > it made me sick... >> > >> so I >> > >> say >> > >> go with pills. But I can understand wanting it >> > stopped by >> > >> hysterectomy. >> > >> That way when the mother dies in years to come at >> > least the girl >> > >> can't >> > >> end up >> > >> pregant in a care home somewhere. Which is what >> > I worry about with >> > >> my >> > >> own >> > >> girl... who is very pertty. SO I REALLY worry.. >> > no that some sick >> > >> man >> > >> would >> > >> care if they are pertty. Here in the US we hear >> > about someone being >> > >> in a >> > >> coma >> > >> or something and having a baby about every >> > year.... just think how >> > >> many >> > >> we do >> > >> not hear about. >> > >> >> > >> Plus.... I work in a hospital and see older >> > family members come to our >> > >> department with diaper soaked and all over the >> > bed.... at least >> > >> without >> > >> the period >> > >> it would not add to the mess. >> > >> >> > >> Just my thoughts. >> > >> kristina >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> ************************************** See what's >> > new at >> > >> http://www.aol.com >> > >> >> > >> ----------------------- >> > >> >> > >> To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY >> > list, go here: >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > >> > > >> > > Kendall >> > > >> > > An unreasonable man (but my wife says that's >> > redundant!) >> > > >> > > The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; >> > the unreasonable one >> > > persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. >> > Therefore, all >> > > progress >> > > depends on the unreasonable man. >> > > >> > > -George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950 >> > > >> > >> === message truncated === >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get >> listings, and more! >> http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/3658 >> >> ----------------------- >> >> To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here: >> >> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy >> > > > >-- > > >Kendall > >An unreasonable man (but my wife says that's redundant!) > >The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one >persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress >depends on the unreasonable man. > >-George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950 > >----------------------- > >To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here: > >http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy ----------------------- To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy