>>Tom:
>> Indeed, some of those promoting fruitarian crank science, do so in a
>> vicious, hateful and dishonest manner (in my opinion).

Alan:
>I wonder why? Where are you? There aren't that many cranks over
>here (at least not on the nutrition front).

Tom:
A good question. Several fruitarians were expelled from this list for
extreme hostility. Certainly makes you wonder about the diet.
PS I am in California.

Alan:
>To be honest, such cranks are usually loners and do not belong
>to some recognised and "serious" group.

Tom:
Although some of them are loners, there are groups of crank fruitarians,
also an e-mail forum that promotes (fruitarian) crank science.

Alan:
>No calcium problems reported. Zinc is a problem when eating produce
>from zinc-depeleted soils (large-scale agriculture).

Tom:
I had severe cramps on the fruitarian diet, which may be due to calcium
deficiency (or possibly another cause). Fruitarians commonly report
"light" mental feelings (even on organic food), and loss of libido. This
may be due to zinc deficiency, i.e. is a plausible cause. One raw vegan
reported such symptoms long ago on this list, and said that the
symptoms went away on taking zinc supplements.

Alan:
>There is no such thing as a protein deficiency. Do you know of
>anyone with such a complaint? Human protein is built from

Tom:
Check "Modern Nutrition in Health and Disease", vol. 2. See the chapter
on PEM: protein-energy malnutrition.

Alan:
>Never heard of "anti-protein fanatics"..at least not here. If

Tom:
The anti-protein fanatics are all on another forum.  :-)

>>Tom:
>> Calories may be inadequate (look at the emaciated fruitarians).

Alan:
>I suspect you are looking at the emaciated macrobiotic crowd (of the
>past as nowadays they realise that raw grains are the culprit).
>I do not know any emaciated fruitarians. What do you mean by

Tom:
Macro folks eat *cooked* grains, not raw. Some fruitarians have body weight
30% below average -- in the range associated with anorexia nervosa.
If you consider such weights as 'natural', then you need to rethink
your view.

>Tom:
>> This may explain
>> the diabetes-like symptoms displayed by many fruitarians:

Alan:
>Unknown here. Please fill me in.

Tom:
1) The diabetes like symptoms were listed in the original post, and you
commented on them (below).
2) Diabetes-like symptoms are COMMON on fruit diets. Ask a group of
rawists about excessive urination, and you will find it common.
Axel just posted about this (on raw vegan, not necessarily fruitarian?),
a few days ago on this list.

>>Tom:
>> urinating
>> every 5-10 minutes,

Alan:
>Known only from eating raw stringbeans.

Tom:
False. I have experienced it myself, even when not eating string beans.
By the way, many fruits are *diuretic* - they increase urination.

>Tom:
>> pains in joints,
>> intermittent blurred vision,

Alan:
>Known only by those who omit unsaturated fats.

Tom:
False. I personally had those symptoms on a fruitarian diet that included
large amounts of avocados, rich in poly- and mono-unsaturated fats.

Alan:
>You have extremists?? We certainly have the emotionalists and the
>religeous..and they can be extreme. But extremist fruitarians from
>the point of view of nutrition???

Tom:
We have had fruitarians here who were/are extremist from nearly every point of
view. But most of all, they were/are unable to function like civil human
beings. One e-mail list, and one crank science forum, exist because the
owner and/or key members, were expelled from this list for their
hostility and/or dishonesty. You seem to be unaware of the deviant behavior
so common among 100% raw vegan/fruitarian "role models".

Tom Billings