Julie,

Curious how long they have been a part of worship. That would be
interesting. Perhaps it is me, but to be honest I do not care for a pipe
organ alone, I love the sound of a Hammond organ mixed with other
instruments, but a bare organ, and not to offend in anyway, I just do not
care for, it, for me, is grating and a bit distracting rather than helping
to offer worship. But that is my shortcoming and not anyone elses. They
must have had a bellow operator to get the air to continue to move through
the pipes, no doubt it was  more than a one person instrument unless he had
a strong leg(s) hehehe.

Brad



At 01/03/2004 on Saturday, you wrote:
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
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>         charset="iso-8859-1"
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>Brad,
>
>The problem I have with that approach is that some churches throw the =
>organ out the window altogether.  Contrary to your statement, pipe =
>organs have been around for centuries and have been an integral part of =
>church worship for a long time.  It distresses me to see all that =
>eroding in the name of being contemporary and "in touch," whatever that =
>means.
>
>Julie, the organist
>
>   ----- Original Message -----=20
>   From: BD=20
>   To: [log in to unmask]
>   Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 8:56 AM
>   Subject: Re: response to Brad about our church visit
>
>
>   Kathy,
>
>   No need to apologize. My bad experiences as a kid growing up in a =
>parochial
>   environment ought not flavor my perception of today's denominational
>   churches either as things have changed a great deal in that regard and =
>for
>   that I do apologize. We use to bring some of the older hymns to the =
>worship
>   service at COTR, granted much of the worship was more contemporary but
>   there was always songs of more meaning mixed with the simple choruses. =
>I
>   think what makes the difference with hymns is to use the beautiful and
>   detailed lyrics and melody and structure but  make it more singable =
>with
>   more instruments than pipe organ. Even in the traditional days they =
>had
>   many instruments, and Wurlitzer or whatever company makes the pipe =
>organs
>   wasn't yet a company hehehe.
>
>   Brad
>
>
>
>
>   At 01/02/2004 on Friday, you wrote:
>   >Well everybody,
>   >I admit that my response to Brad may have been a bit on the defensive =
>and
>   >for that I do appologize. I feel so often that I have to defend the
>   >benefits of tradition that I'm probably a bit too sensitive on the
>   >subject. In reading Brad's second post, I believe that, in most part, =
>we
>   >are on the same page. Sorry Brad if I sounded a bit harsh.
>   >When Julie mentioned that she attends a church that has both =
>traditional
>   >and modern music, I had to smile because that's where we are right =
>now
>   >too. IN fact, after all I've said about tradition, Greg and I are the
>   >ones that are trying to introduce new music into our church. I have =
>to
>   >say that it is being pretty well received, but I think it helps that =
>Greg
>   >and I have demonstrated to them again and again how much we also love =
>the
>   >old hymns and are comfortable doing both. They know that we're not =
>just
>   >condemning their music and trying to get rid of it. They know that we
>   >love it too and that has helped a lot in them trusting us to bring in =
>the
>   >new.
>   >I wish that more churches did have a healthy respect for both. I =
>remember
>   >reading an article by a pastor from our denomination who planted a =
>church
>   >out in California. For that particular population, he had no choice =
>but
>   >to use all modern music. Now, after thirty years, his people are =
>starting
>   >to ask to go deeper and now he's starting to introduce the hymns and
>   >traditions of the church. It's sad that it just takes so long some =
>times
>   >for people to develop that hunger.
>   >The population here where we are has a lot of dead liberal churches =
>and
>   >Baptists and Pentecostal churchs on the conservative end. Since our
>   >expression is more in the middle of the road, I guess, we get it from
>   >both sides quite a bit which may be one of the reasons that we don't =
>see
>   >much growth. Ah yes, the prejudice movement is alive and well in the
>   >Christian church. Anyway, we do respect the church calendar, you =
>know,
>   >celebration of the Advent season, Lent, Pentecost, common time and =
>all
>   >that. Unfortunately, our people don't know very much about the =
>richness
>   >of their own tradition so Greg actually took some time last year to
>   >explain why we do what we do, when we do it and it was a real eye =
>opener
>   >to many. It's easy to point the finger at our people and call them
>   >ignorant, but I think that they are more the norm than the exception.
>   >Traditions become dead when the understanding isn't passed along. =
>This
>   >will eventually happen in the modern churches as well if they don't
>   >explain what they are doing to their children.
>   >That's why, in the Jewish Sadar, you have the youngest child ask, Why =
>do
>   >we do this tonight? I'm sorry, I can't remember the three questions
>   >accurately. Paul, help me out here! But, that's a perfect example of
>   >passing on a tradition with its explanation and it is still a living,
>   >essential part of the Jewish faith today even though it was =
>originally
>   >given about 3,000 years ago.
>   >Brad, it does sound like you've had some pretty bad experiences in =
>your
>   >upbringing both at school and at church. I'm sorry for that. I'm =
>sorry
>   >that people took the opportunity to show power instead of God's love, =
>but
>   >I'm sure that you know that that can happen in a modern church as =
>well. I
>   >suppose a drastic extreme might be Jim Baker's P.T.L. club, but it =
>will
>   >happen anywhere people take their eyes off God and start noticing =
>their
>   >own gain or privilege, giving themselves the glory instead of God. NO
>   >wonder God says that the only heart He can work with is a humble one.
>   >They're the only ones that remain flexible in His service.
>   >IN Him,
>   >Kathy
>   >
>   >________________________________________________________________
>   >The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
>   >Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
>   >Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
>
>------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C3D1E1.F16FF940
>Content-Type: text/html;
>         charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><?xml:namespace prefix=3D"v" = /><?xml:namespace prefix=3D"o" />
>Brad,
>
>The problem I have with that approach is that some churches throw = the
>organ=20 out the window altogether.  Contrary to your statement, pipe
>organs = have=20 been around for centuries and have been an integral part
>of church = worship for a=20 long time.  It distresses me to see all that
>eroding in the name of = being=20 contemporary and "in touch," whatever
>that means.
>
>Julie, the organist
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <3d.htm>BD
>To: [log in to unmask] TJOHNS.EDU=20
>Sent: Saturday, January 03, = 2004 8:56=20 AM
>Subject: Re: response to Brad = about our=20 church visit
>
>Kathy,
>
>No need to apologize. My bad experiences = as a kid=20 growing up in a
>parochial
>environment ought not flavor my = perception of=20 today's denominational
>churches either as things have changed a = great deal=20 in that regard
>and for
>that I do apologize. We use to bring some of = the=20 older hymns to the
>worship
>service at COTR, granted much of the = worship was=20 more contemporary but
>there was always songs of more meaning mixed = with the=20 simple choruses. I
>think what makes the difference with hymns is to = use the=20 beautiful and
>detailed lyrics and melody and structure but  = make it=20 more singable with
>more instruments than pipe organ. Even in the=20 traditional days they had
>many instruments, and Wurlitzer or = whatever=20 company makes the pipe organs
>wasn't yet a company=20 hehehe.
>
>Brad
>
>
>
>
>At 01/02/2004 on Friday, you=20 wrote:
> >Well everybody,
> >I admit that my response to Brad = may have=20 been a bit on the
> defensive and
> >for that I do appologize. I = feel so=20 often that I have to defend the
> >benefits of tradition that I'm = probably=20 a bit too sensitive on the
> >subject. In reading Brad's second = post, I=20 believe that, in most
> part, we
> >are on the same page. Sorry Brad = if I=20 sounded a bit harsh.
> >When Julie mentioned that she attends a = church=20 that has both
> traditional
> >and modern music, I had to smile = because=20 that's where we are right now
> >too. IN fact, after all I've said = about=20 tradition, Greg and I are the
> >ones that are trying to introduce = new=20 music into our church. I have to
> >say that it is being pretty = well=20 received, but I think it helps
> that Greg
> >and I have = demonstrated to=20 them again and again how much we also
> love the
> >old hymns and = are=20 comfortable doing both. They know that we're not
> = just
> >condemning their=20 music and trying to get rid of it. They know that we
> >love it = too and=20 that has helped a lot in them trusting us to bring
> in = the
> >new.
> >I=20 wish that more churches did have a healthy respect for both. I=20
> remember
> >reading an article by a pastor from our denomination = who=20 planted a
> church
> >out in California. For that particular = population, he=20 had no choice but
> >to use all modern music. Now, after thirty = years, his=20 people are
> starting
> >to ask to go deeper and now he's starting = to=20 introduce the hymns and
> >traditions of the church. It's sad that = it just=20 takes so long some
> times
> >for people to develop that = hunger.
> >The=20 population here where we are has a lot of dead liberal
> churches=20 and
> >Baptists and Pentecostal churchs on the conservative end. = Since=20 our
> >expression is more in the middle of the road, I guess, we = get it=20 from
> >both sides quite a bit which may be one of the reasons = that we=20
> don't see
> >much growth. Ah yes, the prejudice movement is alive = and well=20 in the
> >Christian church. Anyway, we do respect the church = calendar, you=20 know,
> >celebration of the Advent season, Lent, Pentecost, common = time=20 and all
> >that. Unfortunately, our people don't know very much = about the=20 richness
> >of their own tradition so Greg actually took some time = last=20 year to
> >explain why we do what we do, when we do it and it was = a real=20 eye
> opener
> >to many. It's easy to point the finger at our people = and=20 call them
> >ignorant, but I think that they are more the norm = than the=20 exception.
> >Traditions become dead when the understanding isn't = passed=20 along. This
> >will eventually happen in the modern churches as = well if=20 they don't
> >explain what they are doing to their = children.
> >That's=20 why, in the Jewish Sadar, you have the youngest child ask, Why
> = do
> >we do=20 this tonight? I'm sorry, I can't remember the three=20 questions
> >accurately. Paul, help me out here! But, that's a = perfect=20 example of
> >passing on a tradition with its explanation and it = is still=20 a living,
> >essential part of the Jewish faith today even though = it was=20 originally
> >given about 3,000 years ago.
> >Brad, it does = sound like=20 you've had some pretty bad experiences in your
> >upbringing both = at=20 school and at church. I'm sorry for that. I'm sorry
> >that people = took=20 the opportunity to show power instead of God's
> love, but
> >I'm = sure that=20 you know that that can happen in a modern church as
> well. = I
> >suppose a=20 drastic extreme might be Jim Baker's P.T.L. club, but it = will
> >happen=20 anywhere people take their eyes off God and start noticing = their
> >own=20 gain or privilege, giving themselves the glory instead of God.=20 NO
> >wonder God says that the only heart He can work with is a = humble=20 one.
> >They're the only ones that remain flexible in His=20 service.
> >IN=20 = Him,
> >Kathy
> >
> >________________________________________= ________________________
> >The=20 best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> >Surf = the web=20 up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> >Only $14.95/ month - visit <3d.htm>www.juno.com to sign up=20 today!
>
>
>------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C3D1E1.F16FF940--