Kathy,

Regarding my comment on tradition, I wasn't discounting tradition. In fact
I think tradition is very good, in fact I believe I said that it helps
bring a respect which is lost with many charismatic type churches. If I
didn't mention it here in my response to Mat I have in past posts. I agree
the pitting of tradition against charismatic is a spiritual turn off and is
a waste of good energy, and yet those that continue to flop in isles under
so called spirit infillings lacking reverence and those that walk
religiously with robes of kingly guise   with cold hearts will continue to
bring that about until we begin to see a mature balanced mix between them
with a lessening of both of spiritual insecurities and over confidences,
which fuel the antagonistic attitudes. I've always been a proporter of
respect and reverence with the  opinion of being real with God in kind like
David did in his Psalms. I guess I apologize if I gave you the impression
in past posts this is not so. I guess the spirit of the below scripture is
what I had in mind when I made that comment... and not all are this way
just because they carry traditions either.

Matthew 15:1-8
Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, "Why
do Your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash
their hands when they eat bread." And He answered and said to them, "Why do
you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your
tradition? "For God said, "HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,' and, "HE WHO
SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.' "But you say,
"Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever I have that would help you
has been given to God," he is not to honor his father or his mother.' And
by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
"You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you: 'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME
WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY"

It is not the traditions or rituals that are wrong, but the guise in which
they make a show to others their religious standings or facade but lack the
guts or willingness to live out their faith. I was schooled  in a parochial
school, attended a traditional type church, confirmed out of a traditional
church and never once did I hear of them reaching out with a soft word to
help those in need,  but rather whispering gossip from one pew to the next
of who came in late, or wasn't there that Sunday, and why. Never once did I
hear how they've gathered food for the needy, but instead were sure to pass
the collection plate around for self needs. They wished to charge my great
grandmother for her pew position within the church after they deemed her
unfit for a reason I fail to remember now but of no fault of her own, she
was one of the godliest real persons I recall,  I was schooled by teachers
in that school that not only mentally abused you as a kid saying things
like "What is wrong with you Dunse's" when you literally needed help on a
math problem or honest to God, colored out of the lines in second grade,
does wrenching the sideburns of a 7 year old boy sound like positive
teaching, how about pinching the neck for yet evidence of it nearly a half
a day later when returning home, shaking you about, whipping stuff at
you,  and on and on, and this is a Christian way of feeding kids knowledge?
And we'd not dream of getting out of line majorly so these disciplines were
done out of the slightest show of stepping out, just being kids. Where the
blazes is Jesus in that? I remember a teacher in first grade, Miss Karen Mc
Alpine, I see her face as I type, a cutie too even for a first grader crush
lol, but she no doubt bucked the system and actually wasn't teaching there
long after that year, but she brought her guitar and sat down in front of
us kids and tought is "We are one in the spirit", and songs of love and
etc. and that made such an impression on me as a kid growing up in the Land
of the Lightening Bolt God at that school. Honestly I wish I could find her
today to let her know the impact her time was there for me. I believe In
the opposite you have now in charismatic churches with kids disrespecting
their parents, young men google eyeing the cleavage of less than
conservative dressed young lady because their parents allow it and are
tired of the old suit and tie days and want to break away from traditions
and have a freedom which only is ringing in a new era of disrespect to the
church and God.  Only concerned with having a feel good Charlie service.
Seeing God as Santa Claus in the sky and you know... my Big Daddy up there.
I've seen both, I've been in the midst of both and felt uncomfortable in
both and yet even with that personal experience and negative influence, in
myself I know I'm not where I ought be balance-wise. In fact my
brother-in-law were talking this past weekend after our music contribution
to a little community church which includes the doxology and etc. and we
commented on how it is refreshing to take part in that yet with meaning and
not a religious service by the numbers or the omission of such from
charismatics. During the sermon, a very heartfelt and good one i might ad,
I never felt like we were on a time frame, I never felt like it it was
shallow or given from a religiously Pius heart. IN fact I commented to the
pastor there how much I appreciated the timely sermon and I loved to hear
things I can take home with me and chew on and put it to use. To be honest,
from his bewildered thanks and reaction as I shook his hand, I'm not sure
he knew what to say which made me wonder how often he heard that kind of
feedback. I have no more ought for empty traditions as I do emotional
experiences in the name of communing with God. Perhaps I have been one
sided in comment due to my upbringing and I know much has changed since
then, I pray God it has anyway. With all the commenting and all the looking
at the two churches, yes I find it tiresome to hear the traditional church
knocking charismatics and charismatics knocking the traditional church, and
I have to say I believe the charismatics do a fair majority of the knocking
from the pulpit but then again I'm probably one sided for the lack of
traditional church involvement minus the one we are now a member of here.
But through it all, what matters is I not stand in judgement but that of
discernment to make myself aware of what God would me to do for me and my
family, and to stand in the humility of knowing I neither am where I ought
be and who am I to toss  the first stone, but rather help bridge those gaps
that separate the churches rather than further segregate them.

Brad