<<Disclaimer: Verify this information before applying it to your situation.>>

On my list of the top things I have missed since going gf over a year ago is
malt vinegar - just to splash on fried fish.  I just tried some organic rice
malt vinegar I ordered from the Gold Mine Natural Food Co (800-475-3663).  It
was good but kind of pricy, about $10 for 16 oz.  They assured me that the
only ingredients were rice and water.  I had no bad reaction to using it.  I
have no connection or financial interest in this company, just a satisifed
customer.
   Barb in Springfield, OH, USA

***
From Paul:
I can't handle distilled vinegars either.  I don't care what anyone else
says, they make my tummy grumble and certainly must be doing damage to
my intestines.  Recently I ate at a restaurant and had a bit of a
problem.  I called the chef and talked with him.  We pinned it down to
him using raspberry flavored vinegar on my salad.  You put a lot of time
into typing your post to the list, and I think it was very well stated.
It's too bad so many on this list get "nasty."  I agree with everything
you said.  Wouldn't it be nice if we could get companies to be straight
forward in what they put in their products?  The problem is they don't
want a competitor finding out what's in their product and duplicating
it; therein lies the "proprietary" claim of why they won't say what's in
their product.  I sympathize with them on that point, but there must be
some way to get past it.

*** Lisa (Waukee, Iowa) I am sure you may get sick from distilled white
vinegar. Bt now, you've probably heard enough ridiculous diagnoses, that
one from your "friends" should just roll off your back. CD seems to be a
complicated condition, with many of us having related (or not)
allergies, intolerance, etc. However, it is not right for each list
member to presuppose that his or her unique situation should be held
forth as the definition of CD. For example, I eat oats. Regularly. Oat
meal, oat muffins (home made only), oat bars. If I am carefule about
reading labels, I don't get sick. We each need to understand that our
sensitivities will vary and so will our symptoms.

*** From Deirdre: I can use vinegar and distilled spirits and so on. I
even eat a little wheat now and then (I love dumplings in Chinese
restaurants). But I know that I'll have problems when I do the latter.
But no problems w/the former. Vive le difference!

*** My main concern is the "turf" wars that are occurring. I have
learned over 20 years that if I think something bothers me-it does, no
matter who says it is safe. Our diet is difficult enough. I know I
improved after using only GF pickles.

I think our key words should be cooperation and empathy.  The multiple
associations also complicate things, as do the various lists.  I can
uncerstand the reluctance of some of the manufacturers to definitely
classify a product as GF.  If you can get a huge court settlement for hot
coffee you dump on yourself, you  can bet they are smelling lawsuit and some
are definitely vague.  I even had a Taco Bell person tell me all of their
items are GF- I wish.  I wonder if maybe we could someday have just one
national organization and the ones in existence could serve  geographical
areas.  I have the same philosophy as you: to your own self be true--no
matter how much you desire that pickle, if it is white or unknown vinegar,
choose something else.  Imagine how  people who don't read this list or
belong to any organization get by (or not).

Maybe we can do something to help our situation-any ideas?
Rose Mary

***
 Thanks for addressing this as I, too,
cannot tolerate distilled vinegar and avoid it like the plague.  I guess
this defies the statistics the last poster stated.  It seems to me that
"scientists" look at numbers and science, not people and reactions, I think
this is the case here.
kris
wichita, KS

***
I am very sensitive to distilled vinegar and I wont
touch anything that is questionable because I get "glutenized" very easiy,
and it's not worth it!!!!!   Especially when I'm on the road.
Thanks,
Jeanne
Memphis, TN

***
Don W. wrote:
There is always the possibility of back blending after distillation to give
the final product some flavor. As far as I know all 5 (is Philadelphia the
5th?) American support groups consider these foodstuffs to be avoided.

***
Regina wrote:
I called the Heinz Company and found out that their vinegar is distilled
from corn.  That may be why some people can tolerate white vinegar, they
happen to be using white vinegar from Corn.   Heinz ketsup is gluten free
because it contains Heinz vinegar.  However, not all Heinz products are
gluten free because Heinz does not use their own (from corn) vinegar in
all their products.

Hellmanns mayo and dressings contain vinegar from corn, so they are safe
for Celiacs.    Of course some people might be allergic to corn also.

I don't put anything in my mouth unless I know that the vinagar in the
product is from corn.

I have had Celiac for about 20 years.  I'm on the Board of Directors of a
support group in Michigan and have had a lot of experience in this area.
 I hope this helps to clear up some confussion.
***
        I am writing with a question.  Is it possible that the effects of
the distilled vinegars are random (effect some and not others) because some
distilled vinegars are made from gluten containing grains, while others are
made from corn?  I ask because I have called numerous food manufacturers,
regarding the distilled vinegar in their products,  and have often been
told that the grain source was corn.
        Being a "canary in a coal mine" when it comes to gluten (I react to
even the minutest contamination) I have to wonder.  I (so far) have never
reacted to any vinegar (I use them all) in a gluten reaction.  Perhaps I
just got lucky and the local brands of distilled vinegar are made with
corn. (?)
Sincerely,
Lynda

***
From Tami P:

Isn't this exactly what the point is with distilled white vinegar? That
it is possible some (a few? many?) celiacs are having *non-celiac*
reactions to it or products which contain it?

I must admit I've been confused about vinegar for the last five years,
thanks to the conflicting celiac organization positions and this list. I
finally decided to listen to chemists who may know more about it than I
do. It opened up a whole new world of enjoyable foods for my son, with
no ill effects.

Sometimes I feel I am raising a hypochondriac (as well as building
neuroses of my own). It has struck me recently that it is so easy to
blame anything and everything on this disease. Every time my son has
problems concentrating, "abnormal" behavior at school, or an upset
stomach, my first thought is "celiac reaction." But we are *so* careful
about his diet. Well, you know what? Every other kid in the world has
bad days, bad moods, and catches viruses, and it's all perfectly normal.

Sticking to a gluten-free diet and avoiding cross-contamination is
nearly a full-time job. Why do we make it worse by suspecting and
avoiding things that scientists say cannot possibly contain harmful
gluten? Even when it feels like a celiac reaction, it is possible it's
not. As so many know from personal experience, celiacs--like the rest of
the population--can have other conditions. I don't have celiac disease,
but am lactose intolerant. My best friend doesn't have celiac disease,
but is allergic to barley. Every reaction in a celiac is not necessarily
*caused* by CD.

I heartily agree with proposals to stop insisting that vinegar in
particular is not gluten-free. However, those with reactions and our
celiac societies would certainly be justified in stating that "some have
problems with vinegar." But at any rate, let's put a stop to the
confusion and its perpetuation!

As I sit here are read all of the entries on this subject, and feel the
turmoil that everyone is feeling, I cannot help but think that sometimes it
is worth it to ere on the side of caution.  When my daughter was first
diagnosed, we did try using those alternative grains and vinegar, but her
reactions were so severe, that we decided to go the conservative route.  I
think that you can never be too careful when it comes to health issues, and
if in the future, you decide to try to be more liberal, so be it.  If that
works for your situation, more power to you, but if, like in our case, it
doesn't, we wouldn't know where to look for the gluten if we were not told
that these items could potentially pose a problem.  I respect the
individuals decision to be in charge of their own health, but as a mother,
it's my duty and responsibility to make sure my child is healthy.  The
information that these organizations provide is essential to helping us
make the best possible decisions for our loved ones.

Thanks for listening.  A Happy and healthy holiday (whichever one you
celebrate) to you all.
Bev in Chicago, IL

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