In a message dated 5/6/99 10:13:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes: > > With respect to grains and (seemingly to a lesser extent for you) dairy, one > has to remember that the very oldest use is around 10,000 years ago. That's > only about 300 generations. So for example, although descendants of the > first agriculturalists, the middle easterners, handle grains better than > scandinavians, they, too, would probably be healthier on a grain free diet. > > On another note, check your PBS website for "Wilds of Europe." The're > repeating it here (LA station) on sunday, all three 2 hour episodes in a > row. > > Best of luck, > > B. Lischer > I know the years and generations thing, I know about adaptations...the issue I'm looking to clarify or comment on is the "healthier" on a grain free diet. If there are so many natives that thrive and live long lives on grains/legumes/dairy, how can one say that paleo, or any other diet, is healthier?? According to Fallon's book on native nutrition, native cultures ferment not only their milk (which partially digests the lactose and casein, which so many have a problem with), but their grains too. She acknowledges that grains have phytates, but describes that even grains (like we do beans) can be soaked and cultured, so that these elements are less of a problem (obviously we don't do that to our grains in this culture, closest thing is sourdough bread). These people she's describing lived very long lives, even if the numbers of 150yrs or 100yrs is exaggerated, and they're wrong by 60 years on the former, it's still a llooonnng life. And they lived it *healthy*. They do a lot of physical labor, some at very high altitudes, and don't get that decrepid (sp?), weak, *old person* mentality, or come down with heart disease or cancer. This sounds like *healthy* to meee. She also says, and I have to agree from first experience, that one should not consume *too many* grains, in any event. As much as I agree with paleo eating, I can not in good conscience say that "it's the only healthy diet out there", because common sense tells us it isn't. I am not trying to convince anyone that likes and thrives on paleo eating to switch. On the contrary, I support it. But those of us, and there are many, Ray included, that like to occassionally eat things that are *forbidden fruit*, I am merely pointing out that there are many, many people that thrive on them, and have for thousands of years. IMHO it is very interesting to see how different grains and milks are treated in traditional cultures, versus how they are here and now in ours. The difference is like night and day. It is not a wonder why we are so ill as a culture. But even still, *not* everyone is ill... One more thing, we love to use the Eskimos as an example of high protein/fat eating, with little or no carbs, and how they have very low levels of heart disease and cancer,,but how come noone ever mentions that they have a very high rate of stroke?? Is that healthy?? Thanks for the PBS info, and the dialogue.. Anna L. Abrante [log in to unmask] "...the more things change, ...the more they stay the same..."