Demba, you made this personal and personal it will be. Sorry my ass! I gave you your space and did not deal with your Jegg Kebetu shit for the longest. And this shit will not just stop here on-line. Who the fuck are you that I will be exchanging with someone on something that has nothing to do with you and you want to have the liberty to go personal with me. And then you attempt to show folks that you are busy like I gave a rat ass. Damn hypocrite! You started this shit, I will meet you on all fours to its logical conclusion. Asshole!
Joe
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 11:54:33 -0700
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [G_L] Khaleel and co under attack: Gambian Drs and PhD holders not the solution then: Who is David Bansama
To: [log in to unmask]Wooo!! sorry Joe Joe... if I confuse you with someone...¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Joe Joe <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Demba, who the fuck are you to be issuing Ndigals for me or anyone? Consume your own damn hypocrisy and stick to that. Are you fucking listening to your self? Man go fuck yourself with your busy schedule. You got me fucking confused with someone. This your Jegg business I will nib it on the bud. Asshole!
Joe
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 10:30:42 -0700
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [G_L] Khaleel and co under attack: Gambian Drs and PhD holders not the solution then: Who is David Bansama
To: [log in to unmask]Suntou, unless you read me wrong... I am in agreement with some of the comments that have been made here about Gambian elites.. I included myself in looking in the mirror and that is what we need self reflection.. What I can't stand is self righteous holier than thou people who see everything wrong in others and nothing in themselves.Let's face it, we have passed the blame game level and beating to dead every issue without a way forward... What we need are practical ideas, commitments and solutions to our problems. Ask questions and find solutions... Personally I don't look at anybody as a better human being because of their status or education.. They are as human and fallible as I am... There is a difference between conscience and level of education...Sheikh, Dr. Prof.. are all titles.. It is what we do with our lives, our commitments, lessons we learn and how we relate to others that counts more... We shouldn't expect any more moral behavior from a Dr. than a farmer or street vendor..This is my standing...Demba¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 6:59 AM, suntou touray <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
DembaIt seems you forgot about the mantra of the proverbial preacher. The key starting point is 'I myself is included in everything I say' Hence, us here are the Gambia's educated, we are a portion of the lot. This means, we are including ourselves in every single conversation. On the subject of Drs and PhDs, not to sound dismissive, I agree with the notions flying around. They are folks who have specialised, tailored their academic interested, albeit deeper in a niche area. So in that case, they are not Jack of all trade, they are jerk of a trade.I guess, because few of our folks focus on a line of education, we make them a big deal, but seriously, it doesn't change people...The greater burden is on the masses..ThanksSuntouOn Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Interesting... well, now that we dealt with everybody from the PhD's; Imams to the street beggars; it is about time we look in the mirror and deal with ourselves... Just saying...Eid Mubarak in advance...
Demba--
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Joe Joe <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Khaleel, thanks for your response and clarification. That was my take and since you reiterated that, that is not where you were headed, that is sufficient for me. Now, you have been around and know that we have dealt with the Supreme Islamic Council, BAR Association, opposition leaders, Priests, Village Heads, and I can go on and on and the who is who in Gambian society. So, it baffles me that with all that background you will think that only a few PhDs are put on the chopping block or to bear our weight. We cannot talk about all of them in one sitting, but nonetheless, we shall discuss all those found wanting and in time. Unfortunately, ours is like trying to fill a basket with water - there are too many of such characters to last us a lifetime, but it is a fight we must continue as we fight to take back Gambia.
Joe
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 19:45:58 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [G_L] Khaleel and co under attack: Gambian Drs and PhD holders not the solution then: Who is David Bansama
To: [log in to unmask]
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤Joe,
You are absolutely entitled to your opinion especially your interpretation of any literature. I read what David wrote and you read it as well. It is not uncommon for both of us to come to a different conclusion. I understand the issues you have with them and I share some of your sentiments.
It is wrong by any measure for anyone to chase fame and fortune while sacrificing personal courage, integrity and basic human decency and then turn around to attempt to lead a crusade against someone you decided to get cozy with and serve.
My conscience cannot let me condone to that but we can't make a mistake though, to narrow that conversation to a few PHD/DR holders “so called intellectuals” in our society.
There are many things wrong in our society and a whole lot of people are contributing to what is wrong in the Gambia, a lot more than the few so-called intellectuals. That doesn’t make it ok by any means for them to add salt to the wound either.
How many positions are in Yaya’s government? Compare that to the few held by these PHD/DRs and you will have a lot more positions left filled by our brothers and sisters.
Joe I am not in the business of defending a grown man/woman who can do that better for themselves. I gain nothing from that brother. I write and speak with conviction just like you and I am not too big to render apology when I am wrong. Please read my posting earlier today in response to David. Below is an extract from his article we are talking about:
“He did not think of the average man who sees him and his Ph. D as a savior. He let them down. He did not see the poor farmer in Njain Sanjal, Badibu, Niumi, Jarra and Kiang looking up to them (the intellectuals/ Borom Hamham yi) to save our small Gambia from the disaster it has already slid into. Our intellectuals indeed!!!”.
I am not in the business of endorsing people or provide them lukewarm excuses but I respect people for their views and opinions. I wrote about this particular article exactly how I understood it. I follow your postings here and I know you are a very opinionated person, a quality we share. I guess we will just have a difference in opinion on this one. Stay blessed.
Khaleel
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 17:25:36 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [G_L] Khaleel and co under attack: Gambian Drs and PhD holders not the solution then: Who is David Bansama
To: [log in to unmask]
Khaleel, I think there is a slight difference between the gist of your write-up against what David said with respect to expectations we have regarding PhDs. None is giving them one more pond of any load to carry much more total responsibility of our burden. Myissue with these guys is they sold their soul, got kicked out, and then have the nerve to portray themselves as our libertors, to which some of us told them to get lost. How is that expecting them to shoulder our responsibility? We are dwelling on the behavior of these guys for their attempts on us and the lies they carry with them. The issue is not whether they are human and circumstance, but talking about their character and behavior just like we do daily with Yaya. There are no sacred cows here and if there are any left then a notice is being served, for we will expose them. Your main gist is what threw me a curve ball, because it can be viewed as a lukewarm defense or left hand endorsement of some of these characters. That may not have been your intent, but that is how it came across to me in the main.¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
Joe
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 12:38:15 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [G_L] Khaleel and co under attack: Gambian Drs and PhD holders not the solution then: Who is David Bansama
To: [log in to unmask]
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
Thanks Sountou for sharing yet another piece from David. I know David is reading, below is my response:
David,
Thanks for taking the time out whether to elaborate more on your points or to repeat/clarify points previously made that I obviously missed. I still stand by what my interpretation of your article was and I am certain you will do the same as well. Words have meanings and meanings can be flexible at times depending on who is reading or writing. To me, your list associated those individuals to a high degree of responsibility or lack of to our national development. While you, the readers and I may have some minor differences on use of words, concept and interpretation which won’t go away, I will like to focus on what we agree on if that’s ok with you.
I think we are saying the same thing here for the most part David. We both don’t expect the PHD/DRs to be the agent of change in our country; we both agree that given their intellectual capacity, they should play a role worthy of emulation in this time of despair. We also agree that the responsibility of our nation building rests in the hands of many not few. These are pretty significant things we agree on and I pray that our deeds match our words for the most rather than the few who will shoulder this crusade to lead our nation in the near future. I also pray for all of us to be steadfast, humble, respect one another and reason well with each other. I look forward to reading more from you. Have a blessed day and happy eid in advance.
Khaleel
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 12:15:29 +0100
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [G_L] Khaleel and co under attack: Gambian Drs and PhD holders not the solution then: Who is David Bansama
To: [log in to unmask]
Gambian intellectuals Are Not Agents of Change
Reads :274
OURS IS A CRUSADE TO CLEANSE
OUR SOCIETY OF THESE PARASITES
By David Bansama
“David is over stretching their role……. The expectation that less than one percent of our population should shoulder the responsibility to lead and effect change because they attained the highest level of education is not real” – Says Khaleel Jameel on Gambia L
When I wrote my piece last week, I knew (and expected) it would generate a lot of discourse because it is not the norm (to talk in less favourable terms about people held in reverence) in our milieu. What I did not expect, however, was an attempt (whether by design or default) to infer meanings into my piece which I have not inferred. Thank God, I am still alive, I will go back to re-iterate my position.
Learning from history, I have never expected the Gambian Ph. Ds (or intellectuals) to be the agents of change in our country (even though they can) and I have never expected them to “shoulder the responsibility”. We learnt from history that in societies where change was effected, it was usually the common man who took the lead. For instance, the popular French Revolution was led by the common man; the American war of Independence was not led by the Ph.Ds; the Russian revolt against the Czars was led by the common man; coming home, one of the Fathers of Gambia’s Independence, Sir Dawda Jawara; was first identified and chosen by the common man to represent them. Even at that, he hesitated and contemplated possible financial losses especially as a family man (stated by Sir Dawda in his own book). Some of the members that attended the Marlborough Conference to discuss Gambia’s independence were barely literate. In recent times, the change that Brazil, one of the emerging markets (BRICS), is experiencing was initiated by Lula Da Silva who is not a Ph.D but a common Trade Unionist from the masses; Hugo Chavez (despite Western vilification) brought immense changes to his country for the common man and he did it without attaining a Ph.D. The man that everybody loves (Nelson Mandela) changed the course of history in South Africa without attaining a Ph. D. Likewise, all the Gambian Liberation Movements (as numerous as they are) were not initiated by Gambian Ph.Ds. Please correct me if I am wrong. These “intellectuals” are usually the comfortable lot who like lording it over the rest after the battle had been fought and won. Let me just give a casual example here: isn’t it interesting to see on Maafanta, the FB exchanges between our former Honourable Foreign Minister, Sidi Sanneh, who did not attend the events in Raleigh and Stockholm but wants quick results (in terms of reports) and is so brazen about it? He even trivializes the matter rather unwittingly (just like he did with Yahya Jammeh’s underpants) by zooming on the latest gadgets brought to the meetings, interestingly putting it in this rather de-meaning fashion “…I did not attend either of the meetings but I was told about the fancy gadgets”.Isn’t this cheap and petty for Sidi himself? Where were his brain and conscience at the time of penning this particular line? When I read it, I was tempted to ask: Was it gadgets that concerned you most about the meetings or the substance? How trivial and petty could one be?
Having said the above, what I (and the majority of the poverty-stricken Gambians) do not, however, expect from our Ph.Ds and other “intellectuals” is the aiding and abetting of the current Gambian dictatorship in brutalising our people because of their own selfish interest. By the way, do you know there are some of these “intellectuals” who still clandestinely work with the Dictatorship in Banjul even after Jammeh had shown them the way out in the most cavalier manner? We have full dossiers on most of them and, at the opportune time, will share it with the rest of our compatriots to buttress our point on how cheap but dangerous some of our “intellectuals” can be. It is not a threat. Ours is a crusade in which we are determined to cleanse our society of these parasites. All of the people I mentioned in my write-up joined the regime after Gambians have seen enough PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF JAMMEH’s BRUTALITY. What more lessons did they need to understand that Jammeh is deranged and derailed, and therefore did not mean well for our people? With their supposed exposure and level of “education”, they ought to have known better. This was the thrust of my message and I thought it was crystal clear to even the most casual reader.
Now flipping the debate in Khaleel’s way, even if we assumed “less than one percent of our population should shoulder the responsibility to lead and effect change because they attained the highest level of education”, this cannot still be considered an “over-stretching” of their role, especially if we take education as a means to better our societies. This is aptly conveyed to you at the point of getting your degrees for it is said you have been found “worthy in learning and character” to be conferred a Bachelors, Masters or a Ph.D. as the case may be. I believe, 50 Gambian PH.Ds (less than one percent of the Gambian population but with the right mindset and strength of character) selflessly working together, can bring immense benefit to our people. It is all about honesty, principles and patriotism (not the narrow and twisted definition as coined by our Professor in Banjul).
With regards to the rest of what Khaleel said and emphasised “Let’s not forget that these PHD/Doctorate holders are Gambians, they are packed with all flaws each and every Gambian of us has”, I have already belaboured on this fact in both my opening and concluding paragraphs, so I need not repeat that. I would just refer you to these paragraphs to confirm for yourself what I have already said.
I believe we should all be held accountable for our actions especially during these trying times.
--
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
"Be the change you want to see in the World"¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
--
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤--
"Be the change you want to see in the World"¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤--
"Be the change you want to see in the World"¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.htmlTo Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
"Be the change you want to see in the World"