Alan, I didn't say, nor did I mean to imply, that Fred's reasoning was not valid. To the contrary, I think his reasoning is quite understandable, and I have no problem with that part of his response. I was disappointed in his, seemingly, disinterest in pursuing this issue with us to see if there is really an access problem with is site, and if there is, his, seemingly, disinterest in working with us to examine possible alternatives for resolving it. This may not be what he meant to convey, and it might just be the way I, personally, perceived the tone and wording of his message, but nevertheless, that is how it came across to me. In addition, I took the immediate action that I did to move us from complaining about it to doing something about it. I don't believe in complaining unless you are prepared to offer a solution. At this point, my impression is that the solution is first, for all of us to be registered and to log into the QRZ site with a user ID and password. This is a very simple and easy process, and it seems to solve our access issues. In addition, I also commend Fred in the way he handles the capcha problem, i.e. giving us a very easy math question. This is excellent, and I wish all site designers dealt with the capcha this way. However, for other screen reader users that are not on this list or for whatever reason, don't realize that they need to log into the site with a user ID and password to gain full access, then, it appears that Fred would help all screen reader users by placing a statement to that effect prominently on the top of the index page of his site. Yes, I understand he is making such a statement which is a general statement to all users, but I suggest that he be more specific with a statement such as: Note: it is especially important for blind and low-vision users who are using screen reader programs, such as JAWS or WindowEyes, to register and log into this site with a user ID and password for full use and ease of navigation. I have talked to some of you and conducted my own tests and found the above steps seems to completely resolve our access issues. Again, I think Fred has done an excellent job with the QRZ website. It is easy for those of us who use screen reading programs to register, to log-in, and once this is done, it is easy to navigate the site with a screen reading program. I am especially impressed with the way he solves the capcha issue for us by presenting it as a math question, not a graphic that we cannot see with our screen reading programs. 73, Ron, K8HSY -----Original Message----- From: Alan R. Downing [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:45 PM To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask] Subject: RE: QRZ.COM accessibility Hello again all, Fred raises a valid point. Look, the fact that Fred is a friend has nothing to do with my position or feelings about how qrz.com does, or doesn't work. One of the main reasons, and perhaps the only reason, that many sites require that the user type in a graphically presented term, is to prevent automated access to the site for deriving email and such. Another thing is that I do not regard the need to log into qrz.com a hindrance or problem. This is a trivial requirement. As I, and at least one other list member said, it takes literally a few seconds to log in and then go about your business. I certainly remain willing and anxious to lend my assistance if asked, but I take Fred's response to be valid. Best 73 Alan R. Downing Phoenix, AZ -----Original Message----- From: For blind ham radio operators [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dr. Ronald E. Milliman Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 9:20 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: QRZ.COM accessibility Below my message here is Fred's response to my post. Frankly, I am a bit disappointed in his reply. My impression is that he is not especially interested in working with us to find a mutually satisfactory solution to the QRZ access issues. I expected him to possibly reject my suggestion, but I thought he would come back and leave the door open for additional feedback and suggestions if our initial one was not acceptable, but that is not how I am perceiving his response. So, this is going to require a little more thought in terms of what our next move should be. I'm going to work with the site a little more myself. Since some of you are having no problems and some are having considerable problems, it seems logical that we step back and ask the question: What are some of us doing differently than others, resulting in some of us having more or less difficulty accessing the QRZ site. I suspect it might be as simple as those who are not having access issues are logging into the site with a user ID and Password while those who are experiencing problems are not. If, indeed, it is this simple, then, we can take a little different approach with Fred and probably gain his full cooperation. So, is anyone here still having problems accessing QRZ.COM even if you use your user ID and password? Of course, we are referring to only screen reader users. Ron, K8HSY From: Fred Lloyd [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 10:46 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: QRZ.COM accessibility Ron, There are circumstances which make it difficult for me to openly advertise a text-only version of the site. The facility, by the way, only serves callsign lookups and the raw data. It does not handle any forums or biography material. When the callsign data is made openly available to text readers, people start abusing the site and writing programs to take advantage of an "open door" into our database. This activity subverts our subscription stream which in turn could cause substantial harm to our company. It's a sad fact of life. The system we now have in place requires word-of-mouth dissemination and each member must be individually authorized by QRZ management to use the feature. 73, -fred On 8/23/2013 9:58 PM, Dr. Ronald E. Milliman wrote: Fred, First, I commend you for an excellent website, QRZ.COM. It is, indeed, one of the most premier sites on the internet for hams. However, there is one segment of hams, actually a rather large segment, that are experiencing significant challenges when trying to access your site. Those of us who are blind and use screen reading programs, like JAWS and WindowEyes, are having problems accessing QRZ.COM. I understand that you have a Text-based alternative that is more accessible. Unfortunately, not very many of my blind colleagues are aware of this more accessible alternative. Toward the objective of resolving this problem, I recommend that you simply put a link on the top of your landing page, your index page, something like: For Screen Reader Users, Click Here To make it even easier, it would be good if this entire wording be the link; so, no matter where the screen reader user clicks on this link, it will take him/her over to the text alternative of your site. Fred, my intent is to help you with this issue and offer a possible solution for my blind ham colleagues. We are ready and willing to assist you any way we can to resolve this issue. If needed, we are fully prepared to form a small group or committee of blind hams to work with you and help any way we can. Just let us know if we can assist you any further with this matter. 73, Ron, K8HSY -- Fred Lloyd, AA7BQ President and Founder, QRZ.COM [log in to unmask] http://www.qrz.com/db/aa7bq