Thanks YJ, and I wouldn't fret over the 'robber barons' in state houses across Africa. I'm sure you can tell a Pan Africanist president when you see one! LJDarbo ________________________________ From: Y Jallow <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Friday, 8 March 2013, 9:05 Subject: Re: [G_L] Jombo Kenyatta's son Uhuru Kenyatta Possible New President - of Kenya??? Quite honestly, I haven't followed much of Kenya's politics. Very healthy Debate Mawdo Demba and as a result of my little following, I would rather watch the show. I am quite amazed at what I have read from all contributors. It tells you that we are better with the power of ideas in healthy exchange than the other little things that gets on the edge. Just when things are nice here, we should reflect back on these when it gets rough. I like to commend all of you especially LJD for his outstanding take below, "As you would guess, I am not detained by the romantic school of Pan Africanism for if that alone must be our source of pride, we will forever remain a childlike people (What do you think of China building the headquarters of the AU in Addis after some fifty years of the founding of the continental organisation?" Good job Dear Lamin and this is the same red card I gave to politicians and mind players. I would rather for the rest of me believe in a righteous principle than get stranded to a person out for his selfish nature, and won't care about his citizens' (all of them) plight. I must tell you that some of these big 'grandbubas' out there and Uncle Sainey is with us on this, claiming to be panafricanists are just a shame to humanity. Just the same description that LJD gave to the old Nyerere who many crown as hero (Panafricanist) can be put on the late Guinea Saikou Touray whose murder of Telli Diallo (Jallow), former OUA Secretary General and many other Guineans especially his open aggression against the 'Peul' (Fulbe) in the subregion is a known fact. These were folks that armed themselves with lethal weapons while masquerading themselves shamefully in panafrican uniforms. Perhaps, the lack of a system of formal matriculation on panafricanism has helped to wrongly shape its representation. As far as my little mind can give me, Panafricanism was supposed to be representing and not the other way around. It was supposed to empower, unite, and shape a common destiny for the constituent it constituted. It was not meant to be that lethal weapon helping criminal rulers hang onto power, or use it as a stupid ideology to fool around. It is not enough for those that claim to be Pan africanists to openly say I love you Africa and fill the air waves of radio and TV with hatred against western nations and other citizens, must as well act humanly without hurting any world citizen. I tell you though, we cannot reward criminals, and as such, this Kenyata or whatever his name and sprouting came from is not what I personally will endorse. Kenyans needs to be smart enough not to reward any criminal especially as exposed. If the claws of his hands are dirty with blood, I won't even entertain dialogue with you at the high level, adious! I dream about an Africa that will be free from the black chains (dictators). Those that showed the minor and major tendencies must as well be dealt with on the way, by both the justice system and the power of the citizens. Every person must represent and every constituent must represent wholly its group of world citizens. my 2 cents. Best regards, Yero ________________________________ Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 18:56:26 -0500 From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [G_L] Jombo Kenyatta's son Uhuru Kenyatta Possible New President - of Kenya??? To: [log in to unmask] Iheard of JDAM's academic prowess and acute sense of discernment via a mutual friend of ours. He spoke of JDAM awe-inspiringly Suntou. It is the man's sobriety and consideration for his fellow that I am in awe of. Haruna. -----Original Message----- From: Bolonba <[log in to unmask]> To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:32 pm Subject: Re: [G_L] Jombo Kenyatta's son Uhuru Kenyatta Possible New President - of Kenya??? Haruna, LJ's response is both revealing and educative. Thanks LJ for the response. Demba a good question. I learn that, LJD's first academic love was history. They said he graduated with flying colours with a BA honours in history before venturing into law. I may be wrong but this is what I heard. Suntou Sent from my iPhone On 7 Mar 2013, at 01:13, Haruna <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Thank you JDAM and Demba for this conversation. Very revealing. > >Haruna. > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]> >To: GAMBIA-L <[log in to unmask]> >Sent: Wed, Mar 6, 2013 6:21 am >Subject: Re: [G_L] Jombo Kenyatta's son Uhuru Kenyatta Possible New President - of Kenya??? > > >Demba > > >Thanks, and you do have a very searching mind yourself. > > >Your query re Obama is significant in that the US President is the son of the man who was maltreated, blacklisted, and economically starved to a frustrating early death by the father of Uhuru Kenyattta, Kenya's potential president. Obama is aware of his father's plight in the hands of the elder Kenyatta, and actually included some of the narrative in his book Dreams From my Father (1995). > > >Uhuru Kenyatta, second son of Jomo Kenyatta by fourth wife and widow, and political heir of Kenya's founding Prime Minister, and first President, carries a lot of baggage. The Kenyatta name is well recognized and comes with tremendous prestige. The elder Kenyatta did some good for Kenya, and was a larger than life figure in the Africa and Kenya of the liberation struggle and early independent era. Nkrumah and other continental personalities were his political contemporaries. As you would guess, I am not detained by the romantic school of Pan Africanism for if that alone must be our source of pride, we will forever remain a childlike people (What do you think of China building the headquarters of the AU in Addis after some fifty years of the founding of the continental organisation? Or Frnce keeping the 'peace' in Mali when the AU is alive and well?). > > >Regrettably, he also represented everything you are fighting against in the Gambia today. He was an autocrat who gave himself extended powers and in the process indulged heavily in every type of repression and political criminality, including murders of dissidents and prominent opponents. He was utterly corrupt and encouraged the syndrome as a way of maintaining a tight stranglehold on Kenyan public life. His family is quite wealthy and Uhuru Kenyatta is himself reportedly worth some £350 million pounds. To think that the son of such a person is banging at the gates of Kenya's executive mansion is itself an exemplification of the immaturity at the heart of African public life, not to mention the dilemma, through time, of legitimizing the illegitimate, and legalizing the illegal. All of the elder Kenyatta's murders, and massive corruption, are now matters of mere academic interest. > > >Life can be quite strange! > > > > > > >LJDarbo > > > > > > > >________________________________ > From: Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Sent: Wednesday, 6 March 2013, 0:11 >Subject: Re: [G_L] Jombo Kenyatta's son Uhuru Kenyatta Possible New President - of Kenya??? > >Thanks a million LJD.. excellent perspective on the potential Kenyatta >election to the Presidency... I think you nailed the major points on >this... I would further wonder how President Obama will react to the >Kenyan people who freely elects a President with fewer or no violence >clashes reported as oppose to the case five years ago... > >As you noted, his election will present a diplomatic nightmare for the >West but I think as we have seen they are very smart in ignoring >issues that favors their economic and political interest... even if >they disagree... > >It is also interesting how US could hand over someone for prosecution >to the ICC that they don't recognize their citizens to be prosecuted >in the first place. I also ask could Kenyatta in fact be a US or >British citizen... I think Kenya allows dual citizenship??? >Interesting diplomatic times for the UN governing body as well.!!!.. > > >Thanks Lamin always for the enlightening take on issues. > >Regards > >Demba > >On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Lamin Darbo <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> Demba >> >> If Uhuru Kenyatta is elected president, his ICC indictment for crimes >> against humanity will present a diplomatic minefield to the international >> community. Kenya is quite a significant country and is home to one of the >> UN's four major global office complexes, and headquarters of its >> Environment, and Habitat, programmes. >> >> It is also a vital centre of operations against international terrorism, >> meaning that the US and its European partners are likely to tread very >> carefully in the event of Kenyatta's election. Given Kenya's strategic >> location and proximity to the 'terrorist' flash points in Somalia and its >> environs, diplomatic calculations will likely take primacy in western >> national security concerns. >> >> From a purely legal perspective, the Rome Statute does not recognize >> sovereign immunity, meaning that Kenyatta can be arrested and flown to the >> Hague to answer charges of crimes against humanity, one of the three crimes >> currently recognized by the Court. And this notwithstanding he was cleared >> by the Kenyan judicial system to contest the presidency! >> >> Kenyatta is unlikely to encounter any problems in Africa, the Middle East, >> and even some parts of the Far East as far as the ICC arrest warrant. >> Witness Bashir of Sudan who is still at large notwithstanding his indictment >> by the ICC some five years ago. The fundamental question is whether Kenyatta >> can be an effective President if he must stay out of the EU, and the United >> States, two regions where an ICC arrest warrant is likely be executed. >> >> If Kenyatta is elected, Kenya as a country will go against the ICC. The AU, >> and the Arab world, are already in that bracket in light of their opposition >> to surrendering Bashir of the Sudan. Although the law is clear that Kenyatta >> has no immunity, I cannot see him at The Hague if only because of the >> immense and critical diplomatic issues embedded in any attempt to transfer >> him, and his running mate, to the Netherlands. >> >> Kenya's election violence appear not to be a suitable case for the ICC, and >> it is quite regrettable we are at this point in that unfortunate >> transaction. We are here only because of Africa's governance deficit! >> >> >> >> LJDarbo >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Demba Baldeh <[log in to unmask]> >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Sent: Tuesday, 5 March 2013, 18:09 >> Subject: [G_L] Jombo Kenyatta's son Uhuru Kenyatta Possible New President - >> of Kenya??? >> >> Uncle Sainey, >> >> Was wondering if you or history students such as Dr. Jallow could put some >> light on the possibility of former Kenyan leader Jombo Kenyatta's son >> becoming new President of Kenya? Any recollection of Jombo Kenyatta's reign >> in Kenya, role in fighting for Independence in Africa and promotion for >> African Unity and Pan African-ism... >> >> It can be noted that Uhuru Kenyatta is currently allegedly indited by the >> ICC for previous crimes and killings in Kenya... Would this Jeopardize his >> potential Presidency and what would it mean on the credibility of the ICC... >> LJD any opinion on this???? >> >> Thanks >> >> Demba >> >> -- >> "Be the change you want to see in the World" >> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the >> List Management, please send an e-mail to: >> [log in to unmask] >> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >> >> >> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To >> unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web >> interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >> >> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: >> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the >> List Management, please send an e-mail to: >> [log in to unmask] >> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > > > >-- >"Be the change you want to see in the World" > >¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ >To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface >at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html > >To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l >To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >[log in to unmask] >¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ > > > ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html >To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤