Hi Butch, Radio shack used to sell a turn stile that could probably be used with a 6 to 1 ballon, or, you could build a simple ground plane, about 28 inches should work. Of course, even a simple dipole would work better than a rubber duck, slash dummyload! GRIN! 73: John' John Jacques Amateur Radio Station: KD8PC "Where Cat Is, Is Civilization!"