[(Obama was privy to more global information than you or Conrad, or Obey fathomed. Besides none of the three of you had to do the requesting.)...RON 

You are right in your estimation of me. But I think it is purely spite on your part to add Conrad and Obey to the mix; for they had a great deal to do with budgeting in the congress.] Caesar.

 

No I actually adore Conrad and Obey, and Caesar. The fact that C&O had a great deal to do with budgeting in congress does not say they were the ones doing the requesting to borrow. Obama was the one doing that. Therefore, he had to hear from more Americans than Caesar/Obey/and Conrad. It doesn't take anything away from the trio's proficiencies otherwise. I was sharing with you the considerations Obama was confronted with at the time of making the REQUEST to borrow.

I am kind of confuse with your summation above. If the stimulus is not meant to do anything about the rise and fall of unemployment, why did the administration tout that so much.] Caesar.

 

The Stimulus was not MEANT TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE RISE OR FALL OF UNEMPLOYMENT. The Administration did not tout it as such. The Obama Administration touted the Stimulus as an instrument to spur economic growth, EMPLOYMENT, Investment in a clean-energy future, Encourager of new consumer-spending to nourish an economy that was in free-fall. Whether Private enterprise decides to lay people off or not is not the purview nor the intent of the stimulus request. There were other policy measures designed to assist those who have been laid off including re-training and retrofitting to be suitable for jobs in the new economy. The several extensions of unemployment benefits, Moratoria on foreclosures, Ability to refinance mortgages for those whose homes were under water, consumer protection laws, the Health Insurance Reform bill, are among some of the critical measures MEANT to address the scale and impact of UNEMPLOYMENT.

 

[And why did you did say "it is a positive measure to create employment"? What am I missing? Isn't creating employment tantamount to decreasing unemployment? No?] Caesar.

 

Creating employment is NOT tantamount to decreasing unemployment. Especially when we talk about two distinct economies. One based on dirty-energy and odious greed and another based on cleaner-energy and sobriety. In econometrics, the creation of employment is not tantamount to decreasing UNEMPLOYMENT. Net Employment however has a direct effect on the rate of Unemployment. i don't want some idiot economist fucking with us here so I will just say that the STIMULUS Request was not based on Reduciing or Increasing UNEMPLOYMENT. Looking at the requisition bill will enlighten us on that. A STOP-GAP package to decrease UNEMPLOYMENT would have been incentives for the unemployer. That is not the purview of common government. You could perhaps say that the bank and auto industry bailouts (TARP) was meant to address UNEMPLOYMENT. I think you're confusing the stimulus package and TARP or AUTO IND BAILOUTS.

There you again playing semantics with my usage of one trick pony.] Caesar.

 

It occurs to me that the purveyor of semantics is acutely sensitive to competition in that ware. Caesar, what is more semantic than calling the stimulus request a one-trick pony????????????????????? I was just getting into that trench with you. It was not terribly significant. You professional lefties think the medianites wear their pants on both legs at a time.

 

[You know the context I used it in, but to make a point, you had to make it look like I am calling the stimulus a trick.] Caesar.

 

And you knew the context of the stimulus package, but to make a point, you had to make it look like we are calling it horseplay. Caesar you know we are twins don't you?

 

[where did I intimate such absurdity to the policy?] Caesar.

 

You intimated the idiots who called the stimulus package a One-trick Pony were right and Obama was insensitive to their warning.

 

[With regards to the discipline expected of a leader of a democratic nation, well I will let you handle that. However, I do not profess to meeting the requisite for any job and you don't have to tell me what a bum lefties like yours truly are. We live that life daily.] Caesar.

 

What you don't know however is that Bumtrinket was a minstrel prior. She aspires to be a gymnast now. To be a bum is not the exclusive domain of PL's. i will show you greater bums than you ever imagined if you indulge me. Caesar, why are you trying to get mad at these inutile sanaguyaa???? Well I will not let you be mad. Ye beggar hear of it. It will have been something or someone else to piss you off. Not yours truly. I turned a friggin bum into a Saint. Word!!!!

You don't have to lecture me on what transpired under the Bush administration. I am old enough to witness that.] Caesar.

 

You were old enough to have witnessed the global cluelessness but what do you propose to do about it. I am sorry I did not intend to lecture you on anything. I was offering you an umbrella-for-two until the rains passed. Don't piss me off Caesar. I'm not in the mood.

 

[Having said that, I believe it goes to the core of the argument been made by left of center progressives.] Caesar.

 

Don't you see what you're doing Caesar????? You are actively limiting your own capacity and innovation and relegating yourself to the narrow constructs of CP, PL, CR, PR, PC, and LL.

 

[If the previous 8 years were so disastrous and that disaster was started by the party in the minority today, why is the president elected to clean their act, acting as if they have any wonderful ideas?] Caesar.

 

The disaster they created was precisely because they had wonderful ideas. Trained odiously. You and I and The GDP have this fervent belief that the solutions to the world's myriad problems will necessarily come from those who participated in the creation of the problems. NO? 

But i remember you telling me it (the stimulus) has nothing to do with employment/unemployment.] Caesar.

 

I reminded you the stimulus has nothing to do with addressing UNEMPLOYMENT. Not employment/unemployment.

 

[That was your position.] Caesar.

 

YES.

 

[My position was, if the stimulus was larger than what was passed, it would have a more stimulative effect, creating more employment with it.] Caesar.

 

Perhaps. More investment or capital expenditure is more likely to create more EMPLOYMENT. What does that have to do with UNEMPLOYMENT Caesar? Especially if your justification for the request did not have "Addressing UNEMPLOYMENT" in it??????

 

[Will you make up your mind?] Caesar.

 

I have.

 

[To answer your question, yes I believe the stimulus created jobs.] Caesar.

 

Thank you. Therefore, as far as you and I are concerned, those who will tell you the stimulus did not create employment just to discredit Obama's wisdom in requesting it, would be lying through their teeth????????

 

[And I will argue further that it would have a bigger bang if it was spread so thin.] caesar.

 

You mean if it wasn't spread so thin. Caesar, I don't know because I cannot qualify whether the disbursements or project implementations were optimal or not. That is a different argument than Obama should have asked for 1.2 or 1.4 trillion instead of a little under 800 billion. I'm sure you will agree with me on that.

 

[Why do you think the administration is proposing a $50 billion jobs package?] Caesar.

 

To create more EMPLOYMENT I suppose.

 

[Which has no chance of passing before the election.] Caesar.

 

I thought you cherished Obama fighting for America even against filibusters. Remmember the aid to states to keep police, teachers, and firefighters employed????? Now that was aimed at stemming the tide of UNEMPLOYMENT.

 

[Would it hurt to put that in the original stimulus bill?] Caesar.

 

No it wouldn't have. But it is wiser to see what effect what you already borrowed and expended would have on creating jobs, is it not? Especially when we're talking about borrowed funds. From China.

 

[That is borrowing money I can hear you saying. Well you tell me where else is the money coming from?] Caesar.

 

Your worry should be discipline and due-diligence. Not where future loans are coming from or whether they are coming or not. If borrowing 50 billion would help in employing more Americans, I would borrow it with the least or no interest when possible. I will also figure out how it will be paid. In fact while we are here Caesar, If I were President of any nation and the citizens wish to be employed, I would tell them I'm going to have to borrow money for their employment and if they agree to help in its repayment from their new earnings, I would borrow it. I would fight for tax-cuts for them, health-care for them, build and renovate their roads, water supply, and sewerage, their clean transportation, and then go looking for work for them if they will not participate in their own prosperities. I will be the baddest dictator you ever saw Caesar. And no bailouts for private industry or dirty-economies. 

 

What is so progressive about a health care bill that mandates people to buy insurance from the same companies Obama lambasted during the campaign without a public option to keep the cost down? What is so progressive about the financial bill that leaves the Glass-Steagall act repeal in place. A repeal that is blame for the explosion in derivatives trading and the consequent crisis in the mortgage industry. I am convinced that your idea of progressive is totally different from mine.] Caesar.

 

Caesar right now you're inordinately expanding this conversation. I will be happy to discuss the Health-Insurance Reform, The friggin Glass-Steagall, and McCain-Feingold etcetera another time and under separate cover. Right now let us conclude on your anxieties about Obama not fighting hard enough or not requesting more than 700 and some odd billion for Stimulus spending. I'm not trying to ventilate the scope of progressivism or Medinah here. Gimme a break will you?

[I am looking forward to you coming back to lecture me on the structures of the US congress and how that made it virtually impossible to get anything through.] Caesar.

 

No. I'm not interested in the nature of the juggernaut in Congress. I wanna take a friggin hammer at it and bust some bigheads. Will you help me?

 

[However, any observer of the sausage making that is legislation, will agree that the aloof and leave it to Baucus and his committee approach that led to the mandated, no public option health care bill wasn't helpful.] Caesar.

 

Oh brother. There you go again with Faucus. What has Baucus ever done to you Caesar????? I'm just curious.

 

[Mr. Obama could have taken more leadership on the issue.] Caesar.

 

I'm trying to share with you what leadership Obama is demonstrating. Men you make me sick Caesar. Brutus must have been onto something.

 

[Sometimes politics is about optics] Caesar.

 

Politics is ALWAYS about Optics. What're you talking about. And you PL's are giving the devils bifocals.

 

[and you cannot define yourself in opposition to your base.] Caesar.

 

And I ain't trying to do that. I'm trying to identify the base right now. At the friggin CROSSROAD.  

If engaging for America meant not voicing my opinion regarding the policies of a leader I support, i will abstain. But guess what? With friends like us, you won't live in a bubble ala George W. We will voice our disagreement whenever the need arise. That my friend is the essence of democracy.] Caesar.

 

Democracy-Deluxe Caesar. You sell yourself short. Why're you trying to play victim to yours truly men???? This is Haruna men. The ultimate purveyor of global freedoms. What're you talking about????? Men I wish I was in Flint Michigan where you frolick on the beach. And you wouldn't be bothered to go apprehend the Lancet-terrorist. We had to catch him for you remmember?????