Mr. T, I thank you for verifying the dynamism of the Quran if only by its construct and contemporaneity. I casually looked over your rendition of the various schools of Islamic thought. That is not as valuable to discernments as it is to acknowledge dynamism. Look at the different schools of thought and you will recognize chronological and episodic morphology. We are tempted to compare the schools of thought to one another. This is because of competitive bidding for followers. The critical discernment is gaine when we compare the schools to themselves. In sum, you have certified that Allah does not abhor innovation, renewal, rebirth, or DISCOVERY. Comb the entire Quran and even the Hadith. You shall not come accross a single instance of divine abhorrence for renaissance. In that same vein, look at the development of standards and measures in Islam to include the 5 daily prayers. Keep the conversation going. We shall arrive and I will not strong arm. Why have we not engaged in such expedition before? Because we were hamstrung by fear of Innovation and kneejerk apostasy. Haruna. I love you, Bilal, and Uncle Suntou. I do agree with Suntou however that group recitation of the Quran, as is done in Gambia and many parts of west Africa presently, is ill-advised. And there is no basis for a commemorative 40-day group recital. Prayer for the deceased and new-born is advisable. No exchange of gifts and money is to be conducted when muslims gather for the recital of the Quran. The care of widows and or phans of the deceased is to be enjoined by all muslims, EVERYDAY. EVERYDAY is Ramadan. And Ramadan is not occasion for hnger strike. It is for environmental inventory and conservation.  To maintain focus for now, Let us review the development of the "5" daiy prayers in Islam. Together. Haruna. -----Original Message----- From: Muhammed Lamin Touray <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Mon, Jul 20, 2009 2:10 pm Subject: Re: Q’uranic Recitation For The Revolution Suntou, Yes, I have taken part in many group Quran recitations, not as a passive observer, but an active participant. You are right that some people recite too fast, and if I may add, some don’t even recite the Quran properly. However, I think these two groups form the minority. I believe the greater majority of people who participate in Quran recitation do it to please God. Many verses in the Holy Quran promise great rewards for those who recite it or even listen to people recite it. I think the overall goal of group Quran recitation is to bring Muslims together and celebrate the beauty of the Quran. We cannot condemn this practice just because few individuals hijack it for their self-enrichment or ignorance. An analogy to this is the case of our Islamic leaders who have given up worship of God, the Almighty Mighty, to singing praises to Yahya Jammeh. Does it mean we should do away with having Islamic leaders in the Gambia? No. What it means is that we need to choose l eaders with unimpeachable records to lead us and also make them accountable if they stray from the right path. It is well documented in the traditions of Holy Prophet (SAW) that fragments of the Quran were written down during His life time, but it was not compiled in a book.  The need to compile the Quran came to center stage after the battle of Yamamah and other battles, where many huffaz were martyred.  Sayyidna Umar, Radi-Allahu anhu fear that the Quran might get lost to posterity and suggested to Sayyidna Abu Bakr, Radi-Allahu anhu to compile the Quran in a book form. At first, Abu Bakr and some other companions hesitated in doing something the Holy Prophet had not done. They later agreed and commissioned a task force to compiling the Quran. Each verse had to be confirmed by four people before it could be included in the Book. They were compiled in surahs, but not arranged in its current format. Then during the rule of Sayyidna Utman Radi-Allahu anhu, Islam spread to non-Arabs and soon the Quran was recited in many different ways. The problem was that the original compilation did not have vowels; it was all written in constants and non-Arabs could not tell which vowel to use for proper pronunciation. The Christian religion faces a similar problem when they translate the Bible from Hebrew to Western languages. Utman borrowed the original copy of the Quran from Hafsah (the custodian) and had another task force made a copy, included vowels, and arranged the Surah s in their current configuration, and finally burnt all other copies in circulation. There was no manual dictated by the Prophet as to how the Surahs were to be arranged. The next major innovation in Islam was the collection and compilation of the Hadiths. There was no precedence for this too, but the work was and still is, revered by Muslims. A great number of Islamic laws are rooted in the Hadiths. Furthermore, in late 8 to mid 9 centuries, four scholars, Abu Hanifa, Malik Ibn Anas,  Muhammad ibn Idris ash-Shafi`i, and Ahmad bin Hanbal developed the four schools of Islamic law from their interpretation of the Quran and Hadiths. Hanifa developed his laws in Iraq and Muslims of India, Pakistan and the surrounding countries follow his law. Malik developed his laws in Medinah, and Muslims in most of Africa, excluding Egypt and other north east Africans Muslims follow his law. Shafi’I was a student of Malik and his law is followed by Muslims in many Middle East countries. And finally, Hanbal developed his law in Iraq and is followed in most of the Arabian Peninsula.  These four Madhhab do not always agree on the interpretation of Quranic verses and Hadiths. However, Islamic scholars agree that all the four schools are valid, and where they disagree, Muslims are free to choose anyone of the schools. We utilize their innovations to further the cause of Allah and His Messenger. A major source of problem in the Gambia today relates to our understanding of these schools20of Law. Most of our recent scholars get their education in Saudi, Egypt and other Middle East countries that follow a different school of law and when they returned to the Gambia and find people following Malik, they condemn them. Gamo, group Quran recitation, praying for the Holy Prophet, and many other rituals accepted under Malik, they label as bidah, thereby creating unnecessary confusion. In fact the Quran itself is not static. If you looked at Meccan Surahs you will see that their tones are softer than those of Medina.  We know the prophet had wanted to introduce Islam through peaceful means, but when the Arabs started persecuting Him and His followers and forced them to migrate to Medina, the tone became a little stronger. During the early part of the Hegira, enemies of Islam were stronger militarily and determined to wipeout Islam. In response, the Quran commanded Muslims to defend their faith and provided spiritual and military guidance. During these trying times, the entire Muslim community was on the edge of annihilation but miraculously, Muslim ranks grew stronger and finally defeated their enemies. Furthermore, in the early days of Islam, alcohol was not forbidden; Muslims were asked not to approach prayers while under the influence of alcohol. However, it was later forbidden. There are many instances in the Quran where a later verse replaces an older one. What this shows is that the Quran is living. What am trying to say is that Islam is supposed to be a complete way of life;=2 0therefore, it must be alive. Our interpretation of innovation has not helped the Muslims very much. Early Muslims sowed the seed of European Renaissance. They collected and synthesized the works of Aristotle, Plate, and Socrates and other ancient scholars, invented modern bureaucracy, astronomy, Algebra, optics, the hospital, and many scientific methods of enquiry. But due to our interpretation of innovation, we could not capitalize on these works and provide better life for Muslims and human kind. The Quran made explicit statements about many aspects of nature, but we discourage people from studying them because we interpret such quests as bidah. --- On Sun, 7/19/09, SUNTOU TOURAY <[log in to unmask]> wrote: From: SUNTOU TOURAY <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Q’uranic Recitation For The Revolution To: [log in to unmask] Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 11:39 PM ML, I am not going to get bugged down here as to the many things you insinuated as not being bidda. For starters, the Qur'an was revealed and written during the life time of the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) completely. the verses are memorised by many scholars and sahabas at the time, the compilation was authorised by a kalifah who has that mandate to institute such high profile edit. The Prophet peace be upon him said, "follow by sunnah and that of the rightly guided sahabas", now which of them did you read or came across authorising a group sing along quranic recitation? lets not try to confuse cl ear issues here, many of the thing prevalent in our cultural Islam was innovated by some leading men among of our decent who did those to make religion appealing and interesting to our folk. The group qur'anic recitation contradicts the fundamental injunction of the quran itself, that is, ponder over the verses. Have you ever attended or taken part in such events? I have and the way and manner in which people do it is such that, they complete reading a juz in less than half an hour, you don't have to take my word for it. It is a money making venture that has now turn into how fast people can read rather than how much they take from reading. If one person reads and the others listen, that is acceptable. It is a strong sunnah among early and later Muslims to have an Amir (leader) in every occasion. Islam always recommends that, one person should speak and the others listen, this person should be chosen by the group as the lead. In the mosque, the prayer lead by one person, the Imam, sermons are delivered by one person, the imam and many other occasions. Just for sake of finishing a quran for a deceased shouldn't make us turn things on their head. Now coming to your assertions that, some scholars confused the bida issues. I will like to make it clear that, bidda is mainly innovations in matters of religion. the manufacturing of weapons, planes and material things is never even contemplated as bidda. we are talking here about religious matters. The excessive pr aising of the Prophet Muhammad during the innovated Mawluad is bidda. The sahabas never did it, do we love the prophet more than them? why should people be siting inside mosque with white cloths and seeking the presence of the prophet with strange incantation never heard of during the sahaba's time? There are a thousand and one things that we can do to seek the nearness to God without going through every other way. The prophet says, "follow my sunnah and that of the kulafah rasideen ie rightly guided sahabas" why should we be doing acts which origins we don't know? the likes of Ibn Masoud ban men sitting casually in the mosque doing group incantation, that was considered bidda. why? go into any group qur'anic recitation and be a listener, it is more than futile to pick anything. We are all making our statements, it is up to people to do what they deem fit, grave veneration, saint over-praise, seeking things from them etc. which sahaba did we heard celebrate the death of a person? a family can pray for their dead, the right people are the deceased offspring, his/her children. in fact a special duaa is recommended for it by the prophet. Bidda in religious matters is what we should avoid. Just like the taleban are misusing Islam, many other people are doing the same by wasting the time of people with endless things never found in the practises of the prophet and the sahabas. We have seen families using their line of birth as pretex to suround themelves with endless venerators, to the extent that, family line is considered more important than uprightness and good behavour. we have seen whole industry open up by families to trade their name and spread desciples across the globe based on innovated practises never found in Islam, why? the commercialisation of religious acts shouldn't be encouraged. A lot of money is spent now on dead people, just like some other religion or traditions are doing, as muslims, we should stick with our faith, adjust to modern time in the world matters and stay on the sunnah. suntou --- On Sun, 19/7/09, Muhammed Lamin Touray <[log in to unmask]> wrote: From: Muhammed Lamin Touray <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Q’uranic Recitation For The Revolution To: [log in to unmask] Date: Sunday, 19 July, 2009, 6:43 PM Suntou, I disagree with your characterization of "group Quran recitation" as bidah. Many scholars of Islam misinterpret this Hadith: “Every innovation is a misguidance and every misguidance goes to Hell fire “(Sahih Muslim). There are two types of Bidah or innovation: Objectionable innovations and non-objectionable innovations. Some Islamic scholars mix these two types of innovation. Objectionable innovations are those that alter fundamental beliefs and pillars of Islam as related in the Quran and Hadith. For example, if someone or group declares that there are four or six daily prayers would be considered objectionable innovation. On the other hand, Non-objectionable innovations are those that support the Quran and the Hadiths. Such innovations are always valid. If you consider the compilation of the Quran into a book; it was done long after the death of the Holy Prophet (SAW). The collection and compilation of the Hadith was conducted by Islamic scholars long after the death of the Holy prophet (SAW). These are just a few among thousands of non-objectionable innovations in Islam. We cannot say these Bidah or Objectionable innovations. I the same vein, “group Quran recitation,� praying for the dead, celebrating the birth and death of the Holy Prophet (SAW) cannot be forbidden. ML Touray ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤ ¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤Â¤ ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤