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POETIC JUSTICE

Haruna. Glaring.

In a message dated 4/17/2009 12:54:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:

The last sentence about Halifa before the statement to Hurananding should read as follows:

He has however demonstrated non cowardice, he has demonstrated absolute bravery, he did NOT betray the trust of his supporters and he has time and time again that when the going gets tough he will rather be a front line soldier than a protected General

Muhammad Bai Drammeh Bin Alhagie Sheihu Muhammad Lamin Drammeh Bin Muhammad Kanday Drammeh bin Muhammad Kissima Drammeh bin Foday Drammeh

--- On Fri, 17/4/09, Muhammed Drammeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

From: Muhammed Drammeh <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Halifa Factor, what next? Darboe's cowardice
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Friday, 17 April, 2009, 5:39 PM

Thank you very much Jallow, Ko Gonga Jarama

The coward (Darboe) ran away and will always run away. Once a coward always a coward. Darboe will be remembered for his cowardice. This is not a witch-hunt as claimed by Haruna and it is not an unfounded allegation nor it is a mere attempt to bellitle the person of Darboe. All I mentioned about Darboe are statements of fact about the way he behaved contrary to expectations. This coward should go away!!!!!!!! I challenged any one in the L to proof that Darboe when he ran away did not do so in cowardice. Let me remind you all, I have no problem with the UDP as a party nor the person of Darboe the coward. I do however have an issue with the cowardice that he has shown in 1996. I was not told about it. I witness it. I was in The Gambia when he jump a fence. Like I said Darboe is goat who when he sees a carpenter's saw will bleat mbehey!!!!!!! Ihay!!!!!!!! thinking that it is the butchers knife ready for the slaughter. I am totally surprised that Suntouba and Harunading would not see that Darboe's actions were the true act of a damn coward period. Nothing more nothing less. Whether you like it or not Halifa as for the time being has shown imense bravery. I would not praise Halifa for that because he has just done what was expected of him and he delivered. He has however demonstrated non cowardice, he has demonstrated absolute bravery, he did betray the trust of his supporters and he has time and time again that when the going gets tough he will rather be a front line soldier than a protected General.

As for you Haruna please read below:

IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT DARBOE THE COWARD RAN AWAY. THIS IS IN THE HISTORY BOOKS AND WILL NEVER BE FORGOTEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DARBOE IS A QUALIFIED LAWYER IF HE THINKS THAT MY STATEMENTS ARE UNTRUE. PLEASE TELL THE COWARD TO SUE ME FOR LIBEL. HE RAN AWAY!!!!!!!!! THE IEC IS AWARE THAT HE RAN AWAY AND ALL THOSE GAMBIANS WHO VOTED IN 1996ARE THAT HE RAN AWAY. I WILL ALWAYS REMIND EVERYONE OF HIS COWARDICE.

Muhammad Bai Drammeh Bin Alhagie Sheihu Muhammad Lamin Drammeh Bin Muhammad Kanday Drammeh bin Muhammad Kissima Drammeh bin Foday Drammeh

--- On Fri, 17/4/09, Abdul Jallow <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

From: Abdul Jallow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Halifa Factor, what next?/Ginny/Laye Thank you.
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Friday, 17 April, 2009, 4:42 PM

Haruna:

See there you go again making an orbit round the solar system. Anyways, what I discern from your gibberish is that in analysing Ousainou's decision to cower into the embassy, we should give him the benefit of doubt and bear in mind that his decision was "private" and was based on considerations for "his" personal "welfare" and in the spirit of democracy and peace.

For Halifa's decision to get in the line of fire to find out facts about reports of witch hunting was "both a calculated attempt to yield PDOIS attenuated fortunes and a concern for the human rights of his fellow citizens...." I assume your emphasis is on Halifa's purported motive to "yield PDOIS attenuated fortunes" since that is the first in your list of reasons for his action. How do you reconcile the inference that when Ousainou decided, it was for the good of the country but when Halifa decided, it was for political gains?

Did it ever hit your knucklehead that in fact the reverse inference is the truth about Halifa's decision in that he leveraged his political position (PDOIS attenuated fortunes) editorial responsibility and Pan African connections to get in the line of fire in order to highlight and portend to the rest of the world that what was going on in Gambia is wrong and should be stopped? Do you see the hypocricy in your insinuations?

Please let me continue to be an idiot for my own sanity.

Buharry is nice, Sis Jabou is nice, Bailo, so so.... Mboge, is on fire. So, let me be the idiot for now.

Tell your uncle/nephew Suntou that if he ever needs instructions to "buruburu" (skin) a "dirimo" or "kerengo" to call me. I used to be an expert in that field; believe it or not.

-Abdoulie
Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2009, at 18:16, [log in to unmask] wrote:

OK, I got it here Laye. You're right the question must have been lost in the shuffle. Thanks for burying it again here. What is wrong with yew?

So if I get it right, your query, or really challenge is: [I asked Haruna to reconcile his stance on Ousainou's 1996 decision to that of his insinuation that Halifa's move against the witch hunting debacle was political grandstanding; we lost that answer somewhere in the traffic jam.] Laye.

I'm not sure I understand the query. These are my shortcomings:

1. What is my stance on Ousainou's 1996 decision (I suppose you refer to Ousainou's decision) to seek refuge in his neighbour, the Senegalese Embassy). In response to Dramane's witch-hunting, I proposed that Ousainou's decision was private and based on advice from his party associates who were concerned about his welfare. And that votes were already cast, and were being counted. This tells me that he ought not be out and about anyway for democracy's sakes. However and FYI, I cannot have a position on the personal decision of other regarding their welfare. That will have been presumptuous of me. I share here my verbatim response to Dramane:

[It seems to me Mr. Drammeh that this question is best asked of Ousainou. And the value of the answer to be assessed by you. It seems a personal matter involving personal calculus. UDP partisans are encouraged to make their judgement of their leader too. I am informed of the ambiance of the event and It happens to be of no significance or consequence to the good of Gambia. I am sure Ousainou acted on information and counsel of his party members and others in the know of his welfare. The votes were being counted after the votes were cast. It is the threat on his person that ought to yield query. Also, It may be wise to address the Hon. Ousainou as Ousainou or Mr. Darboe in your fact-finding mission.

Haruna.]

2. I did NOT INSINUATE that Halifa's "Fact-finding" expedition was political grandstanding. If I ever mentioned grandstanding it was in reference to Evian, Olfactor, Jabou, Dramane, Laye, et al's posturings and attempted intimidation of Suntou. What I did say about Halifa's demarche was that it was both a calculated attempt to yield PDOIS attenuated fortunes and a concern for the human rights of his fellow citizens of Sintet and Makumbaya. A confluence of ideas, which but for Suntou's atrophied expedition, risks being one big haze of listless mirages.

In my opinion, and when Halifa himself was arrested for his expeditions (whether you agree with the process or politic of it), Halifa's human right now trumps any calculus. Now after Halifa's release, and the subsequent withdrawal of the cockamayme charges by an uncouth and clueless prosecutor, IT IS PARAMOUNT TO FOCUS ON THE HUMAN RIGHTS OF THE FOLK OF SINTET, MAKUMBAYA, and the other 2/3 villages and communities where WITCH-HUNTING WAS BEING CARRIED OUT.

WHAT DOES this mean Laye? It means that instead of pouncing on Suntou for nought, and now that Halifa has been released and all erroneous charges have been dropped, the NEXT STEP, is perhaps to seek redress for the victims (All of Them) of the witch-hunting saga AND Halifa's wrongful arrest, detention, and attendant abrogation of rights of his family and friends to see him while in detention. DO YOU BY CHANCE GET THIS?? Why does Suntou's query of Halifa's motives TRUMP the immediate above in significance?????????????????

Would that not BETRAY THE MOTIVES OF HALIFA's REMOTE-CONTROL IF NOT HALIFA HIMSELF??????? Would it were not for your gesticulations, and muscling of Suntou into submission and the casual abrogation of his right to free speech and expression, The SELFLESSNESS part of HALIFA's EXPEDITION could have overwhelmed any interest-peddling he may have been engaged in. AND, the fruits of his loves' labours could have been on their merry ways to ripening. IN OTHER WORDS, LIFE IN GAMBIA, OR ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD, DOES NOT STOP WHEN HALIFA's MOTIVES ARE QUESTIONED. DO YOU GET IT NOW??????? GOOD. THAT IS INSIGNIFICANT AND MINISCULE COMPARED TO THE COOMONER RELIEF THE FACT-FINDING ITSELF COULD YIELD. WHETHER OR NOT THE FACT-FINDING WAS SINCERE, HONEST, POLITICAL, or short on PROPRIETY. SO STOP THE IDIOCY AND RECONNOITRE FOR VALUE-LIFE.

Haruna.

In a message dated 4/17/2009 12:06:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:

Here's the skinny Ginny (add that to your comic collection). You,
Suntu and Haruna have one thing in common, as I observed. You say
everything under the earth, moon and sun, yet we get nothing absolutely!
Buharry asked Suntu a series of simple questions, he went to Jupiter
and came back down to where he started o earth without answering the
questions. At least, Suntu eventually admitted, after the hundreth
exchange, that be was skinning a goat and there are many ways to do
that; only if he had said that earlier!
I asked Haruna to reconcile his stance on Ousainou's 1996 decision to
that of his insinuation that Halifa's move against the witch hunting
debacle was political grandstanding; we lost that answer somewhere in
the traffic jam.
And you, you're a stretch above the rest Ginny. Where is the answer to
Sis Jabou's question? The billies got it? Honestly I felt dizzy by the
time I read your last sentence and I still don't remember you remotely
answering her simple question. What irks meosr is that you keep adding
to heap of crap that generalized Gambians to be so mentally inferior
that any one would hold Halifa to be infallible. Take that crap back I
say one more time.
What I was expecting was for y'all (there goes another bluff) to be
straight shooters and cut to the chase, but I see that's asking for
too much from Suntu, Haruna and Ginny.

-Abdoulie
Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2009, at 6:21, Ginny Quick <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I wasn't necessarily saying that anyone said, word for word, that
> Halifa Sallah wasn't human. And wasn't prone to mistakes. I merely
> pointed that fact out, as an aside, because every time Halifa Sallah
> is discussed, and/or criticized in anyway, the claws come out. And I
> mean every time! I almost guarantee you that if you scream Halifa
> Sallah on a crowded list, it's bound to evoke some kinda response.
> And I also think that some of his supporters idolize him, put him on a
> pedestal, darn near worship him, and anyone can disagree with me on
> this point if you want, however, from what I've seen, anyone who
> criticizes him (rightly or wrongly), gets all kinds of stuff flung at
> them, and we get the same old tired lecture of how great he is for The
> Gambia, and how much he's done for the Gambian people. Which may or
> may not be true, that's not even the point I'm addressing. However,
> the unspoken rule seems to be that criticism of Halifa Sallah is off
> limits. Now this may, or may not, be true. Maybe he has, or can't do
> anything wrong. Maybe the criticism has taken place off list. I
> don't know.
>
> I'll say (once again as this seems to be getting lost in the shuffle),
> that I commend Halifa Sallah for speaking out and doing what he could
> to get at the truth of what actually took place. And I think that
> questioning his motives, just for the sake of questioning them,
> without any proof to substantiate any of the claims made in
> questioning his motives, is wrong and is over the top. OK? Now, if
> anyone has any substantiated claims that Sallah was acting in his own
> self-interest, or for his own political gains, let's post hard facts
> here, and not just mere speculation and inuendo. Let's not disagree
> with Halifa Sallah just for the sake of disagreeing with him.
>
> I have wondered, though, why Halifa Sallah and the PDOIS party has
> failed to gain traction with the Gambian people. And when I've asked
> this question, the inference I get is that the Gambian people, by and
> large, are not politically mature enough, not educated enough, and are
> too tribalistic in their mindset, to choose what's best for them (read
> Sallah). Now, if one thinks so low of the people they supposedly are
> trying to fight for, the people you supposedly want to have freedom,
> democracy, the rule of law, etc., doesn't that mean that they should
> be allowed to support the candidate of their choosing? Even if it's
> not Sallah? Is Sallah (and the other opposition politicians as well)
> fighting for the Gambian people, or are they fighting for their own
> political gains? And if Sallah is so different than the other
> opposition politicians, how so? What has he done that say, Darboe (a
> human rights lawyer mind you) hasn't?
>
> Sallah might be the best thing for The Gambia (I'll steer away from
> the "sliced bread" comparison as it might offend some), however, the
> hard fact is that the majority of Gambians do *not* support him! Now,
> how can you get support from people when you infer (or right out say)
> that the constituency that you're asking to vote for you is too stupid
> and uneducated to do so? Now Sallah may not have said this himself,
> but I've heard/seen it from his supporters enough... And I'd
> personally not support someone who insults my intelligence or thinks
> me stupid.
>
> It seems that all of the opposition leaders' supporters aren't that
> much different than Jammeh's supporters. You criticize their leaders,
> the claws will come out, you'll get called all kinds of names, and be
> asked to prove (with supporting messages, footnotes, and
> documentation) every letter, word, sentence, that you utter. And in
> the process of the back-and-forth, we lose sight of what the actual
> goal is. Perhaps if we remember what the ultimate goal is, which is
> to restore democracy and the rule of law to The Gambia (or at least
> that's what I thought it was), then we can put our differences aside
> to achieve that goal and then worry about the back and forth bickering
> later. However, it seems that you have a group of people who would
> rather have Jammeh in power, than to see anyone else butHalifa Sallah
> as the next President of The Gambia.
>
> All of the opposition leaders, imho, have done something, in their own
> way, to challenge the current regime in power. They'd not be
> opposition leaders if they had not done something... Maybe it wasn't
> exactly what Sallah was or is doing, but if it's not, does it mean
> that how they choose to stand up to the dictatorship is necessarily
> "wrong", or that because they're not acting as PDOIS/Sallah woudl act,
> that that makes them power hungry, selfish, etc.?
>
> And this is why we can't unite! Because some do not have respect for
> the parties they don't agree with, they've put Sallah way up here, and
> the rest of the opposition leaders way down here. And will come on
> the list and say they want a united opposition no matter what, while
> trashing some of the opposition candidates.
>
> I'm going to use American politics as an example again (and my
> apologies as this seems to offend some too), but do you think Obama
> would have gotten elected if he trashed Hillary and her supporters
> after he'd won the primary? Or, vice versa, i.e., what if Hillary
> and/or her supporters had continued trashing Obama after he'd won, and
> the democratic party had remained divided? What I'm trying to say is
> that for the most part, even Democrats and Independents, for that
> matter, rallied around Obama even if they didn't necessarily agree
> with him, in order to get rid of Bush and not allow McCain to get
> elected. They were able to put their smaller differences aside and
> focus on the bigger goal of ousting the Republicans from the White
> House as well as from many seats in Congress.
>
> Now, if people can't even do that here on this list, when we're
> supposedly dealing with mature and educated people, how do we expect
> the leaders to be able to do it? And even if the leaders were able to
> come together, what about their supporters?
>
> You've got one person rehashing an event that happened in 1996, per
> Darboe, and another person questioning the supposed ulterior motives
> of a guy who, for whatever reason, put his life on the line for asking
> questions... i.e. Sallah... And this is just a waste of time and
> we're losing site of the big picture here!
>
> My nuanced view, that many either missed or chose to only focus on the
> critical of Sallah parts, is that Sallah stood up and spoke out
> *more*, hear me? I said *more than* any of the other leaders that we
> knew of! I was commending him for this. However, based not only on
> this current conversation but past exchanges regarding Sallah,
> criticism of him is not tolerated, even if it may be warranted! I
> also said that Sallah has done a lot in educating the people in
> electoral matters (and that was missed too), however,
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