Indeed Haruna. The case at hand is typical of unregistered organisations with considerable funding yet disguise
under missionary activity.] Suntou.
I agree with you Suntou. I add that registration or lack thereof is not really as significant as Proper Registration
and functioning. Besides, I think the Pentecostal Church is a registered entity under the Christian umbrella. The
Ahmadiyya is registered, Islam is probably registered also, and so is Buddhism, Judaism, Mouridism, Animism etcetera.
Well if Animism is not registered, I encourage them to be registered if they desire to engage in evangelistic
salesmanship for their religion. The problem therefore Suntou is that they are registered as Non-Profit Charities.
There-in lies the hypocrisy and unrealized value. While these genuinely for-profit entities create conflict among
people of all nations under a charitable guise, governments accord them free reign while other similar for-profit
corporations are required to pay taxes. This means that if these Pseudo-non-profits are properly registered, the
for-profit enterprises will have a lower tax rates to share society's burdens. This means the need for charity is
lessened to a larger degree than organised religion purports to ameliorate. Ok, I don't know if you follow me yet
SUntou but remmember that the registration of Organised Religion as a for-profit entity does not in itself eliminate
NEED. What it does is immediately remove built-in duplicity and inefficiency which in turn reduces more NEED than
is otherwise possible with Organised Religion as intermediary. NEED here is characterised by organised religion
as Divine Salvation. The animists, muslims, christians, jews, buddhists, etc. NEED TO BE SAVED. They remove the
from NEED and place it on convoluted salvation. COnsider this:
If the muslim declares that a christian becomes saved by converting to Islam, the christian claims the jew is
saved by converting to christianity, the ahmadiyya claims the buddhist is saved by converting to ahmadiyya,
etcetera, etcetera, who might i ask is saved?????? what does salvation look like? And if we ascend to their
contentions variously, I am confident they will only be too eager to regard salvation as profit and contribute to
common salvations. Unless of course we wish to bury our heads in the sand and look forward to be collectively
burned in hellfire and brimstone.
[The arrest i suspect may be have to do with the family talking politics and the NIA got the message.] SUntou.
SUntou, I'm afraid you're muddying the waters like Yahya. That is the reason forwarded by the NIA. That the
Fultons are talking politics. What greater politic is there than organised religion? If the NIA or Yahya condones
politic in the army, airport, and statehouse, what is the worry about a lowly chaplain talking politics????????
Try to look at larger pictures. I am very pleased to have seen CHristiane Amanpour's rivetting piece
"Crying Bloody Murder" on CNN yesterday. I think you should get a copy or watch it on e-CNN. That piece
gives you the ways in which humans justify genocide with ethnic and religious distinctions. We know ethnicity
is divine or natural and religion is artificial, contrary to their hallucinations. So which can you do something
about???? FOrget about these hair-brained reasons for graft and war. Cicero did share that politics is indeed
life and I tend to agree with old Cisero.
[Yahya himself careless about religious activities so long as he is considered the Messiah con miracle man.] Suntou.
I don't take my clues from Yahya Suntou and I encourage you to disregard him in equations dealing with
life-matters. Yahya does not know enough to decide between these two attributes. So we ought to share ideas
with him.
[The preying on vulnerable and less informed masses make the work of modern missionaries very suspicious.] Suntou.
I agree with you to an extent. If you remove "less-informed" and "very suspicious" from your above, I will agree
completely with it. My reason is that the prey are vulnerable on account of their wants and needs, but they are
not any lesser-informed than the missionary predator. It is in the pursuit of his/her profit that the missionary
persuades you they are less-informed (ergo; need salvation). And the missionary's work is not suspicious. It is
simply devalued.
[they operate more in poor countries, war zones, and recovering violent regions.] Suntou.
No. They operate in both poor and rich countries. That explains their for-profit nature further.
They operate in peaceful societies to sow seeds of discord and they recover such operational costs at the tail-end
of the conflicts they helped brood. Suntou, I find you a tad bit timid. We have only one life to live and I hope we
both believe in divine omni-potence, no matter our nomenclatures.
[Any one converted becus of hardship or promise of material well-being is more likely to un-convert if you know
what i mean.] Suntou.
I know exactly what you mean. If you steal from your fellow man, God will take back from you and return it
to its rightful owner. And the laws of inter-human relations ought to do its part to discourage thievery. Thank
you Suntou.
[I have a family member who did exactly that in Germany in the early 1990's. he left six form for Germany
instead of pursuing higher education. when he arrived in Frankfurt, the only option was to apply for asylum.
Life was difficult he said. He expected other Gambians to help him settle down but Germany then was like
Kewulo (tough den). He wasn't use to hustling, all his affairs were taken care of back in the Gambia. boys
from Provence's and tourism spots knows what to do to survive. He instead went into a Christian shelter to
seek help. there the Jehovah witness converted him to Christianity. he Change his name to Tony. For
whatever reason, he was help in many ways. he started training has a nurse. the pay was good, he
unfortunately, started taking liquor, his life spiral out of control. after several years, he return home mentally
insane.] Suntou.
Suntou, I feel for your friend but I hasten to add that religion, organised religion, Christianity, or Islam are
not to blame nor is evangelism to blame for his self-inflicted imbalance. I appreciate the point you're
trying to make Suntou, but I'm afraid it is not terribly relevant here. For every decrepit convert to
Christianity for the wrong reason, I can show you millions of equally decrepit converts to Islam, Buddhism,
Ahmadiyya, Uihga, and Mouride, for the wrong reasons. I think you misunderstand my contention a bit.
I am not opposed to any individual finding salvation in religion for whatever reason. Indeed that will have
been presumptuous on my part. What I seek is to stem the tide of unnecessary disparities, conflict, and
disequilibria in human endeavour.
[as you said haruna, he was converted due to hardship. yet his inner system wasn't ready for the experience
he went into. He has since reverted back again.] SUntou.
This seems to me a personal problem of your friend. If conversion to Christianity inured mental instability
for him, I would question said same mental status prior to conversion. I appreciate your example Suntou but
it is way out of place. And biased as to religion. I cannot countenance that even as I converse with you
in what seems like an amicus brief.
[We are all free to adopted any faith we so wish. But i believe this should be through intense soul searching
and spiritual unfulfilledment.] Suntou.
I agree with you. I don't even think the soul-searching ought to be any more intense than relying on your
God-given faculties and regular communications from God ALmighty. Settle down Suntou. I must here share
with you something I heard former President Jimmy Carter say about his efforts in eradicating Guinea worms
in Africa. And you know you can't get any more religious that the great Jimmy Carter. It goes something like
this: "I keep going to these villages and telling the chiefs - its not some devlish aparition, or some plague, or
some friggin confluence of the worlds colliding. The guinea is right here in the contaminated water you drink."
Jimmy Carter (friggin was added by Haruna). I laughed so hard I nearly dislocated a rib. To see Carter, the
man of God, becoming frustrated simply because he was made to believe the chiefs did not know their
water is liable to kill 'em, would have been a sight to behold. I would have shared with president Carter that
they continue to drink the water because they do not have the means to clean it of the guinea and that
they have more considerations that kill them more immediately than the guinea. And now that you've
shown them one way to clean the water, they will continue to do it until they cannot afford it any more.
Hopefully by that time the guinea will have been extinct to be replaced by another type of worm. Hope that
one of the chiefs will demand their government to ensure clean water for them.
[of The westerners who adopt Islam or other faiths tend to be more willing to under go a period of reading
and soul searching. once they choose a certain faith, this is their choice. they then continue to live happily
becus their decision was influence by themselves alone.] SUntou.
SUntou, I'm afraid you're mistaken in your claim immediately above. The westerner does not have any
different considerations for religion than the southerner. Each individual's process is unique however.
[For poor countries, Christian or Islamic missionary activity is nothing new to us. Remember our first educated
folks in the Gambia entered Christianity to get higher education, and later reverted. Jawara is a good example,
Andrew Camara and many others.] SUntou.
SUntou, I advise restraint on your part. This statement above does not add any more value to our present
consideration and it is ill-advised to name individuals who have an intrinsic right to the choice of religion.
[If i am to choose another faith, my point of enquiry will be about the essence of God. How is God understood in
say Christianity or Buddhism? If that understanding is some what unclear or so sophisticated that it have to
take maths to explain it, then i am not interested. also If God and man relationship is no different from that
of the Animist, why should i bother? This are the key points, not about higher education or material wants.
Religion is suppose to be for the higher dimension.] Suntou.
I am proud of you Suntou.
[check this website and hear some of reason some give for adopting Islam. www.turntoislam.com] Suntou.
I am sorry Suntou but I'm not interested in other's reasons for adopting/choosing his/her religion. I will share
my reasons with friends and family. If I decide to erect a church or mosque or temple or synagogue, I shall
declare to be considered a for-profit corporation. It is said that misery loves company. Thank you SUntou.
Only you can take Haruna through a rollercoaster ride of bantanbilly highs and Yanfolila lows all at the same
time. Ginny don't even think about it. Suntou, You are good I must say. If I didn't know any better I'd
say you're regularly on Njarr Lambaye.
Haruna.
From: Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Fultons in Gambia.
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Saturday, 6 December, 2008, 5:22 PM
Suntou,
I understand your reaction to the Fultons' declaration. I am however not surprised neither am I incensed. This is because I understand religious salesmen and women to engage in winning as many hearts over as possible regardless of whether those hearts are already trained on another religion. This goes for Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Mormon, Sunni, Shia, Catholic, Pentecostal, Protestant, Sufi, Anglican, Methodist, Uihgua, Animist, Sikh, and any other permutation of religiousity in equal fervor.
That is exactly why I think they are all, and they should all be treated as for-profit organisations to form legally, pay their appropriate levels of taxes, respect state boundaries, and continue to save souls that need saving.
Haruna.
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 07:32:15 +0000
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Fultons in Gambia.
To: [log in to unmask]
���������������������������������������������������������� To unsubscribe/subscribe or view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://listserv.icors.org/archives/gambia-l.html To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?S1=gambia-l To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] ����������������������������������������������������������
Interestin haruna. "he has seen many won over from Islam and animism to the lord". yeah.
--- On Fri, 5/12/08, Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Haruna Darbo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: The Fultons in Gambia.
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Friday, 5 December, 2008, 4:57 PM
The Fultons
Dave Fulton and his wife Fiona, daughter Iona and son Luke are in their eighth year in The Gambia. He is a chaplain to the Gambian service men and women and is in charge of the chaplaincy of the airport. In the last few years he has lead many service personnel to the Lord. For the army he has trained seven chaplains (one for each barracks). He has now been enabled to move on to a ministry on the river. This involves reaching immigration outposts and villages only accessible by boat. This is a major challenge, as it involves a ten day trip up river every month. But by Gods grace he sees many won for the Lord from Islam and animism. Fiona trained with others in the church to look after terminally ill people and spends time visiting women in their homes and in hospital.
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