[log in to unmask] wrote:
> My first inclination was to describe this as Communism At Work.  Then 
> it dawned on me that there are plenty of movies of Da Krauts removing 
> and sorting through bombed heaps of brick.
>
> In both cases, it seems to me that describing that process as direct 
> citizen participation in heritage conservation is romanticizing it, 
> more than a little.
Ralph,

I can relate to your sentiment in regard to romanticism though my sense 
is that within a more informed context as to what has gone on and what 
is currently going on with heritage conservation in Poland that it 
suddenly becomes a whole lot less romantic to suggest the intensity of 
voluntary citizen participation as a characteristic that may distinguish 
the preservation movement in Eastern Europe from that in the USA. I 
provided one quote that illustrates what I sense, I can provide more 
fragments that stand out to me at least starkly to represent what I see 
as a difference in the Polish perspective. I am not Polish, you know 
that, but I do go there with a curiosity as to just where did all of the 
Polish workforce that I have been involved with over the last twenty 
years in NYC come from? Let alone that our mutual friend Mr. Weiss, 
through his mother, is of Polish ancestry. There have not been quite so 
many Germans working on cutting out mortar joints in NYC, and I presume 
with the current workforce demographics that I will get to Peru if I 
live long enough, though Pakistan is a close second after the Ukraine or 
St. Petersburg. What I end with is not so much to accept my presumptions 
but more questions and for me the questions lead to a desire to go find 
answers that for me add up.

Geographic area of Poland in square miles is close to that of Arizona. 
Population of Poland is close to a combination of New York (including 
NYC), New Jersey, Connecticut and Pennsylvania. We won't confuse 
ourselves with Chicago. Poland has roughly 1/8th the population of the 
USA. If we combine the population of USA with Canada the population of 
Poland is 1/10th.

I give the above for the reason that the APT Bulletin and the Polish 
Bulletyn are of near identical technical format (though the Bulletyn is 
in full color), peer reviewed, and of nearly equal distribution say at 
1,500 for rough consideration (we will not get into who sends what to 
libraries). This breaks down that in Poland one can almost say that 1 in 
26,000 people are interested in heritage conservation, whereas if we 
only look at the USA it is 1 in 200,000. If we add Canada, and as APT is 
a predominantly US-Canadian organization it makes sense to do that, we 
are then comparing it to 1 in 225,000. We can go on from there to argue 
comparisons of the full range of historic conservation related 
publications and a cursory look at the above data may become much more 
complicated say if we try to compare Traditional Building or 
Preservation in relationship of their format, market, and the general 
population at large. In Poland my perception, having looked at the shelf 
of periodicals on display in the cultural exchange center in Krakow, 
that there are something like at least 8 heritage conservation 
publications in Poland. They all seem to be in full color, some of them 
with advertising, most without. Regardless, the comparison between the 
APT Bulletin and the Polish Bulletyn opens to me a consideration of more 
weight to the thought that the Polish as a percentage of population are 
much more involved in and concerned over their built heritage than we 
are in the USA. At this time, with all of the economic stimulation that 
Poland is going through with their participation in the EU I do not 
presume that it is Communism at Work.

I thank you though for the opportunity to be challenged in my perceptions.

][<
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