Here is a "fact" from observation and experience. Soldiers love to "bitch". It's an art form for them, and if they weren't complaining then we would know that they were really in trouble emotionally. Every unit has an emotional support unit--down to the smallest Reserve and National Guard company. We have FSGs (Family Support Groups) that attend to the needs of the soldiers and their families while the soldier is deployed and after he/she returns. The mainstream press is not telling the entire story about the care received. We have, in fact, learned our lessons about PTSD from the Vietnam experience. WWII was a different situation than Vietnam: Entire units deployed together (as they do now) instead of filling attrited slots with new soldiers and marines. The trip home was by truck and boat and could take weeks to months, allowing for decompression from combat. In Vietnam you could be in the field on Monday and be in your hometown on Friday. The economy after WWII was like a loaded slingshot waiting to fire. WWII vets returned to an economy where there were more jobs than people to fill them. The GI bill allowed hundreds of thousands to purchase homes at a much younger age than their parents. Vietnam vets returned to an economy that was staggering under inflation and the death of "rust belt" jobs. I know this stuff because I teach it--to the same Officer Candidates that will eventually go to the sandbox. I wouldn't teach them something that I haven't researched and know to be true. Kyle -----Original Message----- From: Cerebral Palsy List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Linda Walker Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:12 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: disgusting behavior They can get it but not if they want promotions. At least that's what they tell me. At 04:43 PM 10/29/2007, you wrote: >~~~~~~~~~~~~= > >that's very bad that they can't get counseling! stupid! =0A =0A~~~~~~~~~~~~= >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~=0Ahttp://www.zazzle.com/TamarMag*=0ATamar Mag Raine= >[log in to unmask] ~~~~= >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Linda Walke= >r <[log in to unmask]>=0ATo: [log in to unmask]: Monday, O= >ctober 29, 2007 7:23:42 PM=0ASubject: Re: disgusting behavior=0A=0AMany of = >the soldiers being deployed are at Schofield next to where I =0Alive. I fee= >l like I live on a military base here. We rent units to =0Asoldiers and to= > private contractors who are also serving there. I =0Ahave been dealing wit= >h their problems as they come home. I am sure I =0Ahave talked to more of t= >hem than most American civilians. I have =0Aoften talked to them about whet= >her or not they are going to re enlist =0Aand other things. Believe me when= > I say these young men and women are =0Acoming back very distraught and des= >troyed and they cannot seek any =0Apsychological counseling without it nega= >tively impacting their service record.=0A=0AAt 01:42 PM 10/29/2007, you wro= >te:=0A>Linda, I think your politics are showing. I don't believe this fell= >ow=3D=0A> was a veteran of any current conflict. The article referred to = >a 'brie=3D=0A>f army stint'. I do believe the Guardian was trying to capit= >alize on=3D=0A> his military service and subliminally link his military se= >rvice to his=3D=0A> crime without having to outright establish the connect= >ion--but that's=3D=0A> typical of yellow journalism, both liberal and cons= >ervative. PTSD may=3D=0A> tear a mind down, but it doesn't turn whole gro= >ups of vets into cold-he=3D=0A>arted brutes. How many vets do you know? H= >ow many have you talked to=3D=0A> about their experiences--or are you just= > repeating what you've been tol=3D=0A>d by the proponents of a particular p= >olitical agenda?=0A>=3D20=0A>War is brutal to soldier and civilian alike, b= >ut you can't make sweeping=3D=0A> generalizations about post-bellum behavi= >or. If your prediction were=3D=0A> based in fact, we would have never rec= >overed from the second World War.=3D=0A> My father, who served in two conf= >licts, Korea and Vietnam, would have=3D=0A> taken out his war-generated an= >gst on his family, right? A retired US=3D=0A> Marine Lieutenant Colonel, = >he is the kindest, most gentle man I've ever=3D=0A> known. =3D20=0A>=3D20= >=0A>War is supposed to be brutal, violent. It is such an admission of fail= >u=3D=0A>re and is testimony to the true nature of humankind. The military = >is=3D=0A> a blunt instrument--a hammer, where everything is a nail. But n= >obody=3D=0A> wants war less than the best soldier.=0A>=3D20=0A>Three years= > is harsh? In most US states this would be conspiracy to man=3D=0A>slaught= >er and would have received 10-15 with parole at 7. I highly doub=3D=0A>t t= >hat castigation from his neighbors is going to enhance his contrition.=0A>= >=3D20=0A>Kyle Cleveland=0A>=0A>________________________________=0A>=0A>From= >: Cerebral Palsy List on behalf of Linda Walker=0A>Sent: Mon 10/29/2007 4:2= >0 PM=0A>To: [log in to unmask]>Subject: Re: disgusting behavior= >=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>War brutalizes people and so get ready for a crime wave lik= >e we have=0A>never seen as these traumatized soldiers come home. Disgusting= > isn''t=0A>strong enough.=0A>=0A>At 10:08 AM 10/29/2007, you wrote:=0A> >*M= >artin Wainw=3D3D=0A> >=0A> >Jail for ex-soldier who urinated on dying disab= >led woman=3D3D0A=3D3D0A*Mart=3D=0A>in Wainw=3D3D=0A> >right=3D3D0ASaturday = >October 27, 2007=3D3D0AThe Guardian <http://www.guardi=3D=0A>an .co.u=3D3D>= >k/>*=3D3D0A=3D3D0AA drunken former soldier who urinated on a =0A>disabled n= >eigh=3D=0A>bour as =3D3D=0A> >she lay=3D3D0Adying after a fall in the stree= >t was jailed for three years=3D=0A> yeste=3D3D=0A> >rday and=3D3D0Atold th= >at he and his friends had shamed a town. Anthony=3D=0A> Anderson=3D3D=0A> = > >, 27, and a=3D3D0Agroup of friends who filmed the humiliation of Christin= >=3D=0A>e Laki=3D3D=0A> >nski on a=3D3D0Amobile phone, have been cold-should= >ered in Hartlepool and=3D=0A> turne=3D3D=0A> >d away from=3D3D0Ashops and = >neighbours' homes.=3D3D0A=3D3D0AThey were castiga=3D=0A>ted by a j=3D3D=0A>= > >udge and police at a brief court hearing which=3D3D0Awas told that their= >=3D=0A> "almos=3D3D=0A> >t unbelievable" behaviour had turned the lesson o= >f=3D3D0Athe Good Samarit=3D=0A>an on =3D3D=0A> >its head. Ms Lakinski, a 50= >-year-old bent by a spine=3D3D0Adeformity and=3D=0A> bullie=3D3D=0A> >d fo= >r most of her life, had also been covered in shaving=3D3D0Afoam and=3D=0A> = > kicked =3D3D=0A> >to "make her wake up".=3D3D0A=3D3D0AArticle continues<ht= >tp://www.guardian=3D=0A> .co.uk/cr=3D3D>ime/ article/0, ,2200320, 00.html#= >article_ =0A> continue>=3D3D0A------------=3D=0A> -------=3D3D=0A> >-- ---= >------=3D3D0A------------ --------- ---------=3D3D0ADuring the episod=3D=0A= > >e in Jul=3D3D=0A> >y, which lasted almost half an hour, none of the=3D3D0A= >group called an=3D=0A> ambulanc=3D3D=0A> >e to help Ms Lakinski, who had c= >ollapsed while=3D3D0Acarrying shopping=3D=0A> home and=3D3D=0A> > hit her= > head. Only 20 minutes later, when=3D3D0AAnderson, the phone-fil=3D=0A>mer = >Sim=3D3D=0A> >on Whitehead and several others had dressed to=3D3D0Ago out t= >o a nightclu=3D=0A>b, was=3D3D=0A> > a 999 call finally made. Paramedics w= >ere unable=3D3D0Ato revive Ms Laki=3D=0A>nski, b=3D3D=0A> >ut the call enab= >led police to trace one of the=3D3D0Agroup, Scott Clement=3D=0A>, whic=3D3D= >=0A> >h led to Anderson's arrest at a local club within=3D3D0Ahours.=3D3D0A= >=3D3D0AH=3D=0A>e admitted=3D3D=0A> > outraging public decency and apologis= >ed through his barrister at=3D3D0A=3D=0A>Teessid=3D3D=0A> >e crown court fo= >r actions which he said he still could not explain.=3D3D0=3D=0A>A=3D3D0ATh= >=3D3D=0A> >e court heard that Ms Lakinski lived opposite a house in Raby Ro= >ad whic=3D=0A>h=3D3D0A=3D3D=0A> >Anderson shared with another man, who had = >been smoking cannabis and dri=3D=0A>nkin=3D3D=0A> >g=3D3D0Aheavily with him= > all afternoon. Anderson went out in shorts with=3D=0A> a towe=3D3D=0A> >l= >=3D3D0Around his waist when he saw Ms Lakinski slumped on the pavement.=3D= >=0A>=3D3D0A=3D3D0AS=3D3D=0A> >ue Jacobs, prosecuting, said Anderson first k= >icked the helpless woman=3D=0A> and=3D3D=0A> >=3D3D0Awhen she groaned but = >failed to move or open her eyes, fetched a=3D=0A> bowl of=3D3D=0A> >=3D3D0= >Awater and threw it over her. "Apparently urged on by the fact that=3D=0A> = > Scott=3D3D=0A> >=3D3D0AClement and Simon Whitehead found this amusing, you= > then stated=3D=0A> that you=3D3D=0A> >=3D3D0Awere going to urinate on her= >. Simon Whitehead cleared space on his=3D=0A> mobil=3D3D=0A> >e=3D3D0Aand = >recorded Anderson urinating all over Christine's body." One=3D=0A> of the = >=3D3D=0A> >group=3D3D0Ashouted: 'This is YouTube material.'"=3D3D0A=3D3D0AJ= >udge Peter=3D=0A> Fox, the rec=3D3D=0A> >order of Middlesbrough, told Ande= >rson he had plumbed=3D3D0Athe depths of=3D=0A> degrad=3D3D=0A> >ation and = >brought shame on the people of Hartlepool. He=3D3D0Asaid: "This=3D=0A> cou= >rt=3D3D=0A> > can do nothing to repair what you did, only pass a=3D3D0Asen= >tence that=3D=0A> is righ=3D3D=0A> >t in all the circumstances - three yea= >rs imprisonment. "=3D3D0A=3D3D0AAnder=3D=0A>son, une=3D3D=0A> >mployed afte= >r brief army service, has previous convictions for=3D3D0Aille=3D=0A>gally = >=3D3D=0A> >importing cigarettes, obstructing a police officer and driving= >=3D3D0Aoffe=3D=0A>nces.=3D3D=0A> >=3D3D0A =3D3D0A~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~= >~~~~~~~~=3D3D0Ahttp://www.zazzle.com=3D=0A>/TamarMag*=3D3D=0A> >=3D3D0ATama= >r Mag [log in to unmask]>ma= >rmag=3D3D0A~=3D3D=0A> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~=3D3D0A=3D3D0A=3D3= >D0A=3D3D0A----- Original=3D=0A> Message ----=3D3D=0A> >=3D3D0AFrom: Kendal= >l D. Corbett <[log in to unmask]>=3D3D0ATo: C-PAL=3D=0A>SY@LISTS=3D3= >D=0A> >ERV.ICORS.ORG=3D3D0ASent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:20:28 PM=3D3D0= >ASubjec=3D=0A>t: Re: s=3D3D=0A> >onocur=3D3D0A=3D3D0AKen,=3D3D0A=3D3D0AIt's= > worth a shot, but good luck getting=3D=0A> insurance to=3D3D=0A> > cover= > it, as it's=3D3D0Astill listed as "experimental." I thought abou=3D=0A>t = >your =3D3D=0A> >arms when Janet's doc=3D3D0Afirst mentioned this.=3D3D0A=3D= >3D0A=3D3D0AOn 10/27/=3D=0A>07, ken barb=3D3D=0A> >er <[log in to unmask]> = >wrote:=3D3D0A>=3D3D0A> you know this might help=3D=0A> me. that i=3D3D=0A>= > >s what i have going=3D3D0A> on from my fingers to the neck from repetitiv= >=3D=0A>e stre=3D3D=0A> >ss.=3D3D0A> of course the government is blaming min= >e on cp,=3D3D0A> but,hop=3D=0A>efully i=3D3D=0A> >'ll win this last appeal.= >=3D3D0A>=3D3D0A> --=3D3D0A> Kendall=3D3D0A>=3D3D0A> An=3D=0A> unreasonable= > ma=3D3D=0A> >n (but my wife says that's redundant!)=3D3D0A>=3D3D0A> The re= >asonable man=3D=0A> adapts hi=3D3D=0A> >mself to the world; the unreasonab= >le one=3D3D0A> persists in trying to=3D=0A> adapt th=3D3D=0A> >e world to = >himself. Therefore, all progress=3D3D0A> depends on the unreas=3D=0A>onable= >=3D3D=0A> > man.=3D3D0A>=3D3D0A> -George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950=3D3D0A=3D3= >D0A------------=3D=0A>-----------=3D3D=0A> >=3D3D0A=3D3D0ATo change your ma= >il settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go=3D=0A> here:=3D3D0A=3D3D=0A> >= >=3D3D0Ahttp://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=3D3D3Dc-pa lsy= >=0A> >=0A> >-----------------------=0A> >=0A> >To change your mail settings= > or leave the C-PALSY list, go here:=0A> >=0A> >http://listserv.icors.org/S= >CRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=3D3D3Dc-palsy=0A>=0A>----------------------- =0A>= >=0A>To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here:=0A>=0A= > >http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=3D3Dc-palsy=0A>=0 A>= >=0A>=0A>-----------------------=0A>=0A>To change your mail settings or leav= >e the C-PALSY list, go here:=0A>=0A>http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-IC= >ORS.EXE?SUBED1=3D3Dc-palsy=0A=0A-----------------------=0A=0ATo change your= > mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here:=0A=0Ahttp://listserv.ico= >rs.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=3Dc-palsy > >----------------------- > >To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here: > >http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=3Dc-palsy ----------------------- To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy ----------------------- To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy