yes, mike. i agree. we do better at challenging the nation when we are not dominating. you know it is a problem in that we are responsible to participate as conscience dictates, but, not to try to dominate. i do not know the answer to that problem. --- Mike Collis <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > I'll say it again, Christianity was never meant to > be a national faith. > Because it is, though, we have such instances as > pagan reaming pagan, and > Christian reaming Christian. The sad fact is that > when Christianity becomes > the national faith, it tends to dominate; once it > dominates, it loses its > self, its mission, and its ability to challenge the > status quo. > > It is this inability to challenge the real status > quo that I find so > disquieting if not disgusting among some > conservative Christians today. It > is so easy to compartmentalize one's life, to say > this, this, and this I'll > let Christianity touch, but not this attitude or > idea. The movie "Breach" > is an example of this. We then have examples like > Wilburforce in "Amazing > Grace" who didn't compartmentalize their attitudes, > but rather let > Christianity challenge all of them. > > I could go on and on about this. I should know, I > was a conservative until > about 10 years ago, when I saw what the conservative > movement was doing to > itself. I know consider myself a Christian > independent; with the emphasis on > Christian, not political party. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cerebral Palsy List > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of > Trisha Cummings > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 7:24 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Another question... (My diatribe) > > You know Ken, > > The probelm is not that the US isn't a Christian > Nation - it is ask = > any non-Christian - they are a better judge of the > Christianness than = > any Christain - its that it never your kind of > Christian . And you can = > debate that into obliven - since the Council of > Nicae in 325 AD never = > have Christian come up a universal view - hence the > 1500 differents = > versions of Christianity. Several good links about > the Council of Nicea = > are > http://www.gotquestions.org/Constantine-Bible.html > and = > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea > also = > http://www.probe.org/content/view/790/91/ These > are good educational = > links - I got over my frothing at the mouth about > Christianity about the = > time I realzed the probelem is not the philosophy > but but the people. I = > just got reamed out for letting Amber read the Bible > as a child by a = > Fundementalist Pagan - I spend much time now - > trying for peace and a = > live and let live idea. So there you have it - a > Pagan defending your = > right to your beliefs - Frankly I would ban religion > but then people = > would just fight over something else. Poor God - his > heart must hurt = > that his children act so silly. > > > Trisha=20 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cerebral Palsy List > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf > Of ken barber > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 2:12 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Another question... (My diatribe) > > > you know i am not going to cuss you out mike. your > opinion is as good as anyone else. but, i must tell > you i do not view america as a christian nation. i > view it as a post christian nation. you are right > about it not being christian. i think you are wrong > when you say it never was. i think at one time it > was. > there are lots of things in our national government > that is not christian.=20 > Jesus said his kingdom was not earthly and so it is > not, but, the prophets do say that there will one > day > be an earthly kingdom and predicts Jesus to rule > with > a "rod of iron." that tells me he is not ging to put > up with much oposition.=20 > > to the non-christians on the list i appologize. if > you'd like, i can discuss theology with mike off > list. > > > --- Mike Collis <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > This one is rhetorical and I don't expect anyone > to > > answer... Since we say > > the U.S. is a CHRISTIAN nation, our leader then > > ultimately has to be Jesus, > > right? What then would Jesus have done in the > wake > > of 9/11, as opposed to > > what actually happened? =20 > >=20 > > My point is this (and Ken, you can cuss me out if > > you want), our civic > > religion is basically a mishmash, not > Christianity.=20 > > Here is how it boils > > down to me. Take one heaping helping of > > nationalism; add two scoops of > > national preservation; add three cloves of self > > righteousness; sprinkle two > > or three Bible verses very, very lightly, and > fold. > > Add theological sayings, > > and fold again. Bake in the hot air of political > > lyrical discourse until > > well done, and enjoy it while blowing bubbles of > > happiness. > >=20 > > I know, I'm cynical, but I get so sick and tired > of > > the clich=E9 "America (the > > U.S.) is a Christian Nation." IT NEVER WAS. It > was > > and is a religious > > nation with Christian undertones, but every nation > > is shaped by the faith of > > most of the important citizens. The Christian > faith > > was never meant to be > > the faith of the majority. It is, here, though, > > and we have to put up with > > some anti-Christian ideas from "Christian > > policymakers" in order to live > > here. > >=20 > > ----------------------- > >=20 > > To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY > > list, go here: > >=20 > > > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=3Dc-palsy > >=20 > > > > =20 > _________________________________________________________________________= > ___________ > Don't pick lemons. > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. > http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html=20 > > ----------------------- > > To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY > list, go here: > > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=3Dc-palsy > > ----------------------- > > To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY > list, go here: > > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=3Dc-palsy > > ----------------------- > > To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY > list, go here: > > http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ ----------------------- To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here: http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=c-palsy