Well said. She old enough to know what she is doing and the out come. Definately old enough to fend for herself now. -- Can you imagine what a scarcity of news there would be If everybody obeyed > the Ten Commandments? I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is IN GOD WE TRUST Karen Carter '74 -KC- Ministries -------------- Original message -------------- From: Cecily Ballenger <[log in to unmask]> > I think you should let Gretchen go. You've done all you can to win her, but > she's not responding and only doing what she wants to do and living the way > she wants to live. I think we all agree. > > Cecily > > -----Original Message----- > From: The Electronic Church [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On > Behalf Of Kathy Du Bois > Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 4:41 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Your Opinion > > Phil, > I've been thinking and praying about my answer for a > while. You know that I know that our situations are slightly > different. Gretchen is a girl and there are grand children > involved. I've always acknowledged that. However, it has been your > advice to me over the years that has given me the strength and > resolve to do, what I trulye believe is proving to be in the best > interest of Chris, hard as it is. I wish that you could go back over > some of the advice that you've given to me over the years and now > apply it to yourself in this situation. > You've asked before, on this list, our opinion about forcing > Gretchen to leave and, if memory serves me correctly, the majority > has seemed to be in favor of letting her go and face the full blast > of the consequences of the life she continues to choose to live. You > told me that Chris should not be allowed to run my house or allowed > to rob me of the tranquility that God wants to offer. Why do you > allow Gretchen to continue to rob you of yours? > Also, if it is wrong to live in sin, such as the way she is > choosing to live with her boy friend, by making it easier on her, > isn't that sort of like supporting her in her sin? Isn't that kind > of like sending a mixed message to her that you shouldn't do this, > but I love you too much to suffer the consequences, so I'll continue > to help you out? If you study the life of Judah and Israel, God, > the perfect parent, did eventually let go and make his children > suffer the consequences of their decisions. Israel never did recover > and even Judah only ended up with a remnant of it's former > self. Again and again, God says to his people, "you must be holy, > for I am holy," and "you must perge the evil from among you." > Greg and I have drawn a lot on the lessons of parenting from > God as He dealt with Judah and Israel. We continue to pray for Chris > and we continue to allow contact, but he knows that he is not welcome > home to live and he is really respecting us for it. There are a lot > of things that he has done, and choices he has made, that I don't > like. Things have happened to him that I don't like. It really hurt > to learn that almost everything we ever gave him over the years was > either trashed or stolen, but that is the result of his choices and, > eventually, I believe that he will see that fully. > I think that there is a reason why the prodigal left and > didn't do his blatant sinning in his father's home. He had to get to > the place where he couldn't blame anybody else any more. At home, > there's always someone to blame and there's always someone who will > give in to your foolishness, just one more time. In the world, you > begin to face the truth, which is, sin is cruel, but God is always near. > I know that you're still hoping that you can help > Gretchen. What good parent wouldn't? But, you may not be the direct > tool that God needs to use to help her see reality. I remember your > experience, when you had pneumonia when you said that God told you to > give Gretchen to Him. Have you really figured out what He meant by that > yet? > I know that I don't have answers, just my way of seeing > things. Bluntly, if it were me, I'd have her leave, for the sake of > the children. This has to be confusing for them as well, but that's > just me. Perhaps I'm too hard nosed. After all, my own prodigal > hasn't exactly come home and fallen on my neck in all out > repentance and offered to be a servant, so, perhaps I'm too tough > and your way is right. All I can say is, we have a peaceful home now > and I love it. Chris comes home for visits and he's on his best > behavior and we all love that even more. He never swears at me any > more and he is polite. We still don't trust him and he has earned > that, but he accepts that as a result of his past and present > behavior. He is still choosing to live in termoil, but we have been > removed from it and I thank God for that. > You've given me good advice, phil, and I thank you for > it. Please at least consider what I've said. > Kathy, a fellow, struggling parent > > > P.S. > In another post, you asked the question, "what is a friend?" I hope > that in this answer I have demonstrated to you what I believe a true > friend is. A true friend doesn't just slap the trite phrase, "I'm > praying for you," translated, "I pray that God rubber stamps your > will," on everything. A friend speaks up, when necessary, in love > and takes the risk that she will be shot back at with anger, because > truth is so important to both. > > > At 04:01 PM 6/23/2006, you wrote: > >So, if you had a daughter, who is attending drug rehab classes, working, > and > >trying to stay clean, yet she has an unsaved boyfriend with whom she often > >spends entire nights with and doesn't come home until morning to get ready > >for work, would you, and I have two questions here. First, would you allow > >her, at her age of 27 and since she is an adult with the right to live her > >own life the way she wishes, allow her to rent from you and live in your > >same house? Second, if you are a Christian and your ministry is nothing > but > >Christ centered, not to mention your whole life, consider that your > daughter > >is really trying and thus you should allow her to live as she wishes as > long > >as she pays rent? Just curious. You don't have to be a parent to answer. > >Keep in mind, this same person steels from you, and from others, takes > >things to the pong shop to get extra money, and comes to church but seems > >more to be playing the part than living what she believes. Her goal is to > >be clean, not Christian, in my opinion. So, now what do you think? > > > >Phil. > > > > > >Has He Ever Crossed Your Mind? > >www.SafePlaceFellowship.com >