Thank you Kathy. Jesus children always sees it his way. It is his way or not way. -- I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is IN GOD WE TRUST Karen Carter '74 -KC- Ministries -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Kathy Du Bois <[log in to unmask]> > But Angel, > Salvation is through Christ alone, not through belief in the God of > Abraham. that's a pretty big difference, wouldn't you say? Not to > mention that they believe only in salvation through works. they are > willing to kill themselves because that is the best work > possible. They want to get to heaven on their own, through the > sacrifice of their own blood, not the blood of Jesus. Those are > pretty big differences. > Kathy > > > At 08:36 PM 1/27/2006, you wrote: > >I guess if heaven is not "material things" we won't be playing football or > >eating ice cream or whatever that was some wanted to eat on the list when > >they at last got to Heaven. Not to mention the mansions or the streets of > >gold as those are material. Don't forget the crowns of gold and white > >robes. In the apocalypse St. John describes a very material heaven. What > >about the glorified bodies we are suppose to have. Aren't they material as > >well else how in heaven's name are we to know each other. All those who > >have returned from these near death experiences have seen a material heaven > >which they say is just as real as what we see here on earth. I suppose as > >heaven is not material I may as well forget about sight and healing in > >heaven as I won't have a material body? Is that what you are saying? > >Regarding Islam being a cult, this is not true. Their faith and beliefs are > >different than our beliefs but their faith is no cult. If you read the > >Curran you will see they also believe in the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. > >They have also a strong belief in Jesus. One of the the fundamental things > >upon which we differ is the person/god nature of Jesus. This is a > >fundamental of the Christian faith that Jesus was in truth God who came down > >as propitiation for our sins. The Moslem does not believe this. I believe > >this is the main difference between us though there are others which I will > >not mention here as I don't want to write a discourse. But to imply they do > >not believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is just wrong. This is > >why there are Jihads. They grow out of basic ignorance of the faith of the > >other. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Karen Carter <[log in to unmask]> > >To: <[log in to unmask]> > >Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 9:37 AM > >Subject: Re: Fw: What's With All the Blind Clerics? > > > > > > > No I have never read the Koran nor do I intend to read any cult books. > >The Bible is the only book I need written from the real God. Father of > >Isaac and Abraham. The Koran is written by a human wanting to think you can > >have material things for ever. The Bible says all these earthly things > >shall pass away > > > Yes we are to receive all good things but it also says there will be no > >marraige in heaven there is no need for it. Remember the part where the > >women married the next brother each time her husband would die and they > >asked which she would be married to in Heaven. None of them. Phil or Brad > >you can probably tell what verse and explain what good things we receive in > >Heaven way better than I can. Heaven is not material things. > > > > > > -- > > > I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out > >there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there > >is > > > > > > IN GOD WE TRUST > > > Karen Carter '74 > > > -KC- Ministries > > > > > > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > > From: [log in to unmask] > > > > Read the Curran. It is 70 virgins and 70 brides. Doesn't the bible say > >to > > > > us we shall receive all good things once we arrive at heaven's gate. Of > > > > course it does. These are things valued by Moslem men particularly > >young > > > > ones. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Karen Carter <[log in to unmask]> > > > > To: <[log in to unmask]> > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:31 PM > > > > Subject: Re: Fw: What's With All the Blind Clerics? > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking of those guys who flew into the tower because they were > > > > told that Ala was going to give thme fifty virgins each and a bunch of > >other > > > > earthly things. I bet they were surprised when they got there found out > > > > that there is no need for virgins because in the spirit world we will > >not > > > > have any sexes. Plus there was not a sacrifice like they thought it was > > > > suicide and destruction of their temples (bodies) > > > > > -- > > > > > I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out > > > > there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out > >there > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > IN GOD WE TRUST > > > > > Karen Carter '74 > > > > > -KC- Ministries > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > > > > From: [log in to unmask] > > > > > > Why do you say this? What do you know of Islam that you would say > >such > > > > a > > > > > > thing? I have very good Moslem friends and I don't believe any > >would > > > > > > sacrifice their sight to gain favor with God. However, I think it > >is > > > > noble > > > > > > to be willing to do such a thing. After all Jesus said it is better > >to > > > > > > enter the kingdom of heaven with one hand or one eye or perhaps no > >eyes > > > > than > > > > > > to be cast in to hell for eternity. I wish I had that sort of zeal > >for > > > > God > > > > > > but alas I don't I fear.? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Karen Carter <[log in to unmask]> > > > > > > To: <[log in to unmask]> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:10 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: Fw: What's With All the Blind Clerics? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They probably sacraficed their eyes or whaat have you to get > >blessing > > > > from > > > > > > Ala. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find > >out > > > > > > there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find > >out > > > > there > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IN GOD WE TRUST > > > > > > > Karen Carter '74 > > > > > > > -KC- Ministries > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > > > > > > From: [log in to unmask] > > > > > > > > This is interesting. It seems the cultures with the highest > > > > restraints > > > > > > > > against our full participation in society will jump at the > >chance to > > > > > > cast us > > > > > > > > in clerical roles as if to say, "God will embrace these people > >even > > > > if > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > won't." > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Blind World Magazine <[log in to unmask]> > > > > > > > > To: Blind News <[log in to unmask]> > > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 8:21 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: What's With All the Blind Clerics? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What's With All the Blind Clerics? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > January 20, 2006. > > > > > > > > > By Daniel Engber, > > > > > > > > > Slate - USA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Omar Abdel Rahman: the blind bomber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Muslim cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri denied preaching racial > > > > hatred in > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > British courtroom on Thursday. Al-Masri has been linked to the > > > > > > would-be > > > > > > > > > shoe-bomber Richard Reid and stands accused of starting a > > > > terrorist > > > > > > > > training > > > > > > > > > camp in Oregon. Most news reports also mention that al-Masri > >has > > > > only > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > eye and no hands. It seems like we're always hearing about > >blind > > > > or > > > > > > > > > half-blind Muslim clerics-what's the deal? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a pattern of the blind leading the not-blind in > >modern > > > > Islam. > > > > > > A > > > > > > > > > traditional Muslim education in some ways favors the blind, > >since > > > > it > > > > > > > > > proceeds largely through the repetition and memorization of > >sacred > > > > > > texts. > > > > > > > > > Children chant Quranic verses until they know them by heart; > >those > > > > who > > > > > > > > learn > > > > > > > > > the whole book often receive advanced religious training. > >Blind > > > > > > kids-who > > > > > > > > > often make up for their disability with a finely tuned sense > >of > > > > > > > > hearing-tend > > > > > > > > > to do quite well at this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Children who can't see may also get pushed toward the clergy > >by > > > > their > > > > > > > > > parents. Clerics often preach through the artful recitation of > >the > > > > > > > > > Quran-something a blind person can learn to do as well as > >anyone > > > > else. > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > same child would be at a severe disadvantage in a conventional > > > > > > classroom, > > > > > > > > > and he'd have a harder time holding down a regular job. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Muslims have revered blind clerics for over 1,000 years. In > >one > > > > scene > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > Quran, the Prophet frowns and turns away from a blind man, > >only to > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > Allah castigate him for rejecting a spiritual seeker. The man, > > > > called > > > > > > > > > Abdullah ibn Umm Maktum, became an important early follower of > >the > > > > > > > > Prophet. > > > > > > > > > (The tradition of blind religious figures extends back to > >early > > > > > > Judaism > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > Christianity as well.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today, even blind people without religious training enjoy a > > > > certain > > > > > > level > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > respect in the Muslim world. Turks, for example, refer to a > >blind > > > > man > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > hafiz-meaning one who has completely memorized the > >Quran-whether > > > > or > > > > > > not he > > > > > > > > > has earned the title. In Egypt, blind men are casually > >described > > > > as > > > > > > > > > moulanas, a term of respect given to Muslim scholars. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another factor in the prevalence of blind clerics may be the > >high > > > > > > rates of > > > > > > > > > blindness in Arab countries. A 2002 study, for example, > >reveals a > > > > dire > > > > > > > > > situation in Lebanon, Oman, and Morocco, where more than 5 > >percent > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > people over the age of 50 couldn't see. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The blind clerics most often mentioned in the Western press > >are > > > > > > radical > > > > > > > > > jihadis like Abu Hamza al-Masri or Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman-the > > > > "blind > > > > > > > > sheik" > > > > > > > > > accused of masterminding the World Trade Center bombing of > >1993. > > > > But > > > > > > blind > > > > > > > > > clerics are just as likely to be moderates. The revered Saudi > > > > > > Abdelaziz > > > > > > > > ibn > > > > > > > > > Baaz, for example, renounced violence in the name of > >installing > > > > > > Islamic > > > > > > > > > governments. He also issued a fatwa allowing Muslim men to > >take > > > > > > Viagra. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact, blindness could be a liability within the most > >militant > > > > sects > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > Islam. In the 1980s, members of the Egyptian jihad movement > > > > debated > > > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > > Abdel Rahman's blindness made him a poor operational leader. > >The > > > > > > strongest > > > > > > > > > voice opposing him belonged to Ayman al-Zawahiri, now thought > >to > > > > be > > > > > > > > > al-Qaida's No. 2 figure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Explainer thanks Richard Antoun of the State University of New > > > > York, > > > > > > > > Mahmoud > > > > > > > > > Ayoub of Temple University, Fawaz Gerges of Sarah Lawrence, > >and > > > > > > Valerie > > > > > > > > > Hoffman of the University of Illinois. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Source URL: http://www.slate.com/id/2134506/#. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > BlindNews mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archived at: http://GeoffAndWen.com/blind/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Address message to list by sending mail to: > > > > > > [log in to unmask] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Access your subscription info at: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://blindprogramming.com/mailman/listinfo/blindnews_blindprogramming.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe via e-mail: send a message to > > > > > > > > [log in to unmask] with the word unsubscribe > >in > > > > > > either > > > > > > > > the subject or body of the message