Angel, I think that the issues here may be more to do with stewardship and temptation. Kathy At 08:19 PM 7/21/2005, you wrote: >Gambling is a sin? Where does it say this in scripture. Have you never >taken a chance. When the doctor gives you a choice between two forms of >treatments and lays out risks and you choose one above another are you not >gambling. Every time you make plans for tomorrow are you not gambling you >will wake in the morning when God only gives us today and not tomorrow. We >all of us gamble every day. The Catholic church funds it's schools through >bingo. The children would have to pay lots more if they didn't volunteer to >work this or another project which is church sponsored. The reason Jesus >overturned the money changers in the temple is because they were taking >advantage of those who went to purchase doves to sacrifice that is why he >called those doing the selling thieves not gamblers. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]> >To: <[log in to unmask]> >Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 2:43 PM >Subject: Re: question, problem, and prayer request. > > > > Yes the Catholic is grat at this. Gambling is a sin and the cathilic >church is built on Bingo. If you work Bingo you get your education free >from gambling. I use to work it for the catholic church oh who buy the way >also has beer tents at all functions. It is called ST. Mary's. and Christo >Wray. Oh and Holy Cross. All here in Lansing. > > > > -- > > Christ is either Lord of all or he is not Lord at all. > > Karen Carter '74 > > > > > > > > > I know Christian people who are gluttons as well. Just look at all the >fat > > > people in the church. Do I judge them? Gluttony is a sin according to >St > > > Paul. The body is the temple of the holy spirit and I know Christians >who > > > drink soft drinks. If a soft drink can clean the porcelain off a toilet > > > bole I know I wouldn't want to drink it. I even went to a Christian >church > > > where there was a soft drink machine in the basement of the church of >all > > > things. The take drugs as well. They are always drinking caffeine. I >say > > > that to say this just what is a good witness. I really don't think we >can > > > really say what is a good witness for Christ when there are so many > > > Christian hypocrites around who do not practice what they preach. There >are > > > a lot of male female room mates who aren't either having sex together or > > > contemplating marriage. If people are basing their relationship with >Christ > > > on merely looking at how people around them live and not on their >personal > > > relationship with Christ they will be building their house on shifting >sands > > > and it will fall. ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Brad D" <[log in to unmask]> > > > To: <[log in to unmask]> > > > Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 7:47 AM > > > Subject: Re: question, problem, and prayer request. > > > > > > > > > > Do we have a godly biblical example of living together before >marriage? It > > > > is always best, prudent and wise to bring our situations back to >scripture > > > > no matter how it might cut cross grain to us. Their may be situations > > > > today that may not have existed then, but come to think of it not all >that > > > > many. In any event giving the appearance of evil is not only a concern >for > > > > ourselves, in our own conern of what people may think, but also that >of > > > > all Christians. What if you tried witnessing to a non-believer and >they > > > > said "Don't talk to me about being high and mighty or living >righteous, I > > > > know a christian couple who lived together before marriage, how does >that > > > > differ from non-Christians today?". You see we bare the responsibility >of > > > > wearing Christ-like across our chest when we are known as such, and > > > > appearing as non-believers with a live-in situation doesn't seem to >line > > > > up biblically or doing as the Word says, to stay away from even the > > > > appearance of sin, not to mention surposefully put ourselves in > > > > temptations way no matter how strong we feel our faith is. Psalms 1 >says > > > > > > > > Ps 1:1-2 > > > > Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or >stand > > > > in the way of sinners > > > > or sit in the seat of mockers. But his delight is in the law of the >LORD, > > > > and on his law he meditates day and night. > > > > > > > > Notice the progression of "walk", "stand" and "sit" it cannotes a >gradual > > > > decline if allowed to entertain the ideals of ideals working against >the > > > > law or God's Word. > > > > > > > > I saw a message somewhere about if one gives in to a principle as such > > > > now, how that might affect futre decisoins and ect. I agree. What >would > > > > make a couple stronger, living together because of life's >circumstances > > > > or arranging other means until that day when no holds are preventing a > > > > couple of living as a married one. > > > > > > > > Brad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on 02:47 AM 7/21/2005, Angel said: > > > > I agree with you. It seems Christians today think the devil is bound >to > > > > win > > > > in every situation. I think if you do live together without falling >in to > > > > sin it will prove to you more than anything else your love for each >other > > > > is > > > > not based on mere physical attraction but instead is a heavenly godly >love > > > > which will last through the years. It will also serve as a testament >of > > > > your commitment to god's precepts. I will pray that you be constant >in > > > > this > > > > commitment which I know you will and that your marriage will last as >long > > > > as > > > > the firm foundation on which it will be built which is Christ. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Jenifer Barr" <[log in to unmask]> > > > > To: <[log in to unmask]> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 9:36 PM > > > > Subject: Re: question, problem, and prayer request. > > > > > > > > > > > > > what is a vow between god and two people? If we have vowed before >God > > > > and > > > > > each other that sex will not occur until marriage, then why is >living > > > > > together a sin? We are not intimate until then. I understand >about > > > > > temptation but that's when you pray every day that God keeps you > > > > strong. > > > > > > > > > > Our situation is unique and it's not like we haven't prayed about > > > > it. I > > > > > guess I'm just hurt because everyone seems to think that just >because > > > > we're > > > > > going to be living together the devel is going to win. God is the >only > > > > one > > > > > in control. Is this our ideal situation? no. I've been through >too > > > > much > > > > > in the past to know what temptation can do to someone... and i... >or > > > > yet > > > > > we... will not break our vow before god. > > > > > > > > > > Jenifer Barr. > > > > > When the trumpet blows... I'm outta here! > > > > > AIM: jenibear1998 > > > > > msn > > > > > [log in to unmask] > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Kathy Du Bois" <[log in to unmask]> > > > > > To: <[log in to unmask]> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 2:06 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: question, problem, and prayer request. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Jen, > > > > > > First of all, I'm sorry that you are dealing with an > > > > inflexible > > > > > > pastor. I don't see what difference it makes to him whether the > > > > cerimony > > > > > > is big or small, before or after the civil cerimony. I suppose >that > > > > he > > > > is > > > > > > standing on something for theological reasons, but I have no clue > > > > what > > > > > > that > > > > > > would be. It seems to me that you are left with three > > > > options: switch > > > > > > pastors, move the wedding up, or leave things as they are and >trust > > > > God > > > > > > for a miracle. As a child of God, the one option that you don't > > > > have, > > > > is > > > > > > to move in together. If you begin your marriage by compromising > > > > your > > > > > > principles on something that is truly small in the grand scheme >of > > > > > > things, > > > > > > how can you be trusted for the bigger ones. Believe me, the one > > > > thing > > > > > > that > > > > > > I am learning about our heavenly Father is that he is extremely > > > > creative > > > > > > in > > > > > > the solution department. We often miss it because we get so >stuck in > > > > > > thinking that the only solutions available to us are the ones >that we > > > > can > > > > > > see and we shut the door on His creativity. This is a test. >This is > > > > only > > > > > > a test. The question is, will you trust Him and wait for His > > > > solution > > > > and > > > > > > timing or will you continue to see with earthly eyes only what is > > > > > > possible. Good luck on your adventure. He is faithful. Your >task > > > > is > > > > to > > > > > > remain patient and at peace! GRIN! > > > > > > Kathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 05:17 PM 7/18/2005, you wrote: > > > > > >>Hi all. As most of you know, i am getting married in november. >I > > > > found > > > > > >>out > > > > > >>today from work that they want me to transfer in the beginning of > > > > august. > > > > > >>I > > > > > >>can't tell them i won't transfer then because it is the end of >our > > > > fiscal > > > > > >>year august 31 and i could forfit my job. Problem is though, >that my > > > > > >>fiancee and I decided that to save money... if i had to move in > > > > september > > > > > >>or > > > > > >>october we would just live together until the wedding. We both >don't > > > > > >>really > > > > > >>like the idea but it's like we have no choice. I don't know what >to > > > > do. > > > > > >>I'm so confused... i don't know what is right and wrong. Both my > > > > fiancee > > > > > >>and I are born-again Christians, we will in no way have sex >before > > > > > >>marriage > > > > > >>so if we made/make that pledge to god is living together before > > > > marriage > > > > a > > > > > >>sin? Is it wrong? And what do i do if it is? I know of other > > > > christian > > > > > >>couples who have lived together before marriage. I am just so > > > > scattered > > > > > >>right now. Please pray for clarity for me? And above all, pray >Gods > > > > will > > > > > >>be done. > > > > > >>I love you all. > > > > > >>Jenifer Barr. > > > > > >>When the trumpet blows... I'm outta here! > > > > > >>AIM: jenibear1998 > > > > > >>msn > > > > > >>[log in to unmask] > > > > > >