>From: Oko Drammeh <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: [log in to unmask] >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: [>-<] 76 hagan street- Thanks for the memories >Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 00:01:13 +0100 > >Bro.Habib, I want to tell you that soon I will be theref. I will >vist you and I will visit Yus on my trip. >Please get ready for alot of food, BBQ Everyday. I like visits with >food. If it was not september 11 . >I would have brought my cooking tools (very non-Gambia). But I will >take your advise on this one. >I am a ready to go cook. I love to cook. Please plan this visit. I >will come. >Well, the narr shop, I did remember well, we had the young Reallets >at 75 Hagan. Aunty Pepe from Ghana used to sell there. We would wash >dishes and get free cassava. If it in Ganarr it will be like >this.-"Su nekkon ganarr". >Joe cates was a social person and he is a subject for the post. He >did alot of youth programmes and played a major role in Gambian >social like. His daughter Kathrine Cates was expelled at the GHS >strike against Mr. Beal and no more European Principal at the >school. >You asked for Ebou Bobb (golo). He was too smart and too fast. I do >not know where he is now. Hope alive. >Glad to have you on the post. You are well informed and very >sincere. >No Egos, Respects to youalways bro!!! >Your good friend and brother >Oko Drammeh > > >Habib Ghanim wrote: > >>[ This e-mail is posted to Gambia|Post e-Gathering by "Habib >>Ghanim" ] >> >>OKO >> >>O too am really sadden to see that house go. >> >>If I had a million dalasis I would have purchased it and preserved >>it. What a darn shame - >>I definately remember some of those hay days . remember the narr >>shop  behind  the main Jow morrocan style design house via the back >>port   (just opposite my grandfathers house cameroun and leman >>-first bici bank branch-)  The narri gannars would drink attaya and >>hold their prayer beads and shant -su nekkon gannar du day nee , su >>nekkon gannar du day nee , su nekkon gannar du day nee , ( laugh ) >> >>  and we teased them and were chased many times and there was apart >>from the Jambie and Njyaibi table in the front, there was Aunty Abi >>in the back near the same narr shop with the akara  and the fried >>fish and beef and liver stew!! .  . And how big pot  belly Joe >>Kates  opposite the first reform club then would be cursing us and >>chasing us when we taunt him after he was drunk trying to pick up >>you know what ! sugar daddy joe !!.  Yes the flourescent light  how >>romantic at night >> >>  by the way what happen to our good buddy Ebou Golloh  - hill >>street .He was a master at  Dusu >> >>I think someone told me he passed away . if so May his soul rest in >>peace >> >>  My dad and sajja kah 's father pa were traders up country in KTR   >>and during the rainy season  they would  always have impromtu >>business meetings there too - >> >>Oh 76 hagan and yes  how one of us had our eyes on sister Marie jow >>  and she left us for some kotos ( laugh ) !!! >> >>Brother Oko >> >>There are so many things to discuss to help you with you book . I >>wish you 100% success >> >>I want to make a suggestion when you come here this summer ( I know >>you always go to Iron ) but please let us get together at my place >>and invite some of the oldies ( planned properly to get even out of >>state folks like Jabou - Soffie  is not an oldie but definately our >>fellow half die but she is local ) and any others you want to >>invite . I will definately contribute if  it is done  locally in >>Dc. >> >>You had a good observation about the police and our half die fear >>syndrom especially the new cops from up river - the santounkoos -!! >>they would not even walk pass dobson street ( my birth place) - at >>night  the police land rovers knew where not mess with in our hood. >>Halfdie !!! >> >>There were the salone plums and the mango trees in certain >>compounds that were game to us . Remember the 'mankanee' put on the >>tree to scare us from stealing . boy it never worked with us !! ( >>laugh)  we clean it out  the one near teacher  Lilia johson's >>compound picton street near the catholic church >> >>  and the infamous parochail hall dances with the nuns and the >>fathers watching over . >> >>I can go on and on but I gottta go now bro >> >>goodnight >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >From: >Reply-To: [log in to unmask] >To: [log in to unmask] >> >Subject: Re: [>-<] The bishop and the imam >Date: Fri, 16 Jan >>2004 08:48:03 -0800 (PST) > >[ This e-mail is posted to Gambia|Post >>e-Gathering by ] > > >Kotu Oko: >I never knew all this history. > >> >Thanks for the lesson. > >Regards, >Yusupha > > >--- Oko Drammeh >>wrote: >Habib, >  I am most sadden by 76 Hagan stree, But if the >>price is rigfht ,then >!!!We had our club there next to the mango >>tree where the mburtu sheep >was always tied. The water jar was >>there for strangers. People come all >over the Gambiato stay. The >>big Siko bands from up country would rally >at 76 Hagan and very >>often there big Sabarr galas out there I remembered >that Seedy Jow >>used to have this green floricent light qand when he >married >>Bintou Njie we had the dance at the big salle. The house was >> >neatly built in Morrocan stlle design with nice cornres and a >>fancy roof >top symbolising the succes stories of the yard. It was >>a learnintg >center only the kids dropped the ball but guys like >>Mbye Manneh, Ouskoi >and brother late Bakari, Marie and Sukai, >>Charles,. I remembered Ebou >Jow and Jay Jow the juniors and I had >>to look after them from bullies at >school. I had a bullie gang in >>school. Many boys and girls from >upcountry lived there. Most of >>them came from 14, Leman street, where >the trader Pa Alieu Kah >>lived, the father of Yusupha Kah and Saja. He >used to bring in big >>lorries from up country and sponsored many kids for >education. I >>remembered when Habibou Sarr and Mam demba moved from Leman >with >>Yai ka Jow and Pa Abdou Sarr to Hagan. . They also have this guy >> >called Arona Jallow(Bad-lin ) who works for the BCC and the >>footballer >with the vespa who played for Augustinians. There is a >>long history >attached to 76 Hagan. >Then comes the cassava and >>beans table at the yard gate. There were over >100 people a day at >>the compound gate,with Ayo delle, and family. I ate >many dinners >>the and also many with aunty p'ep'e. >This is culture. > >> >[log in to unmask] wrote: > > >Kotu Habib: > >I agree.  The >>discussion between the Imam and the Bishop was a very civil one.   >>Note that this discussion was held way back in 1990 and I must say >>that the Bishop foresaw the problems that would come from the >>Middle East. > > > >Nonetheless, I was bothered by the fact that >>both religious leaders tried to tout their civilizations as the >>best.  Where does this leave places like Africa?  I figure that >>this mentality (ie that your civilization is better than mine) has >>been one of the main sources of acrimony between the two religions. >> > > > >As per your mention about civil discussions here, I am one >>of those people who believe that you cannot bury your head in the >>sand and pretend like acrimony does not exist in our society.  In >>short, it is good to hatch those things out in the open so that we >>my learn from it and move forward.  Too often, our culture chooses >>to ignore serious problems and I am glad that at the G-Post we have >>been given the liberty to air our feelings no matter how >>acrimonious. > > > >On 76 Hagan Street, I don't know who bought it >>but I think it went for well over 1 million Dalasis.  A pity that >>all my stock grants have not matured yet, because I would've loved >>to buy the place.  I'll try to find out who bought the place. > > > >> >Thanks! > >Yusupha > > > > > >--- "Habib Ghanim" wrote: > > > > > >> >_____________________________________________________________ > >> >New! Unlimited Netscape Internet Service. > >Only $9.95 a month >>-- Sign up today at http://www.netscape.com/emreg > >Act now to get >>a personalized email address! > > > >Netscape. Just the Net You >>Need. > > > > > > > > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > > > > Subject: > > RE: [>-<] The bishop and the imam > > From: > >> > "Habib Ghanim" > > Date: > > Fri, 16 Jan 2004 04:15:07 +0000 > > >>To: > > [log in to unmask] > > > > > > [ This e-mail is posted to >>Gambia|Post e-Gathering by "Habib Ghanim" ] > > > > Interesting >>read Yus. > > > > I wish such debates or healthy >>exchanges/discussions took place in the > > first place rather than >>all the useless fighting amongst each other > > earlier and >>presently. > > > > > > > > A O B > > > > If you do not mind who are >>new owners of you family hagan street > > chossan house .? do you >>remember Ouskoy-habibou sagnia? he was > > always in that house . I >>cannot imagine it down ! > > > > habib > > > > >From: >Reply-To: >>[log in to unmask] >To: [log in to unmask] > > >Subject: [>-<] >>The bishop and the imam >Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 > > 18:10:34 -0800 >>(PST) > >[ This e-mail is posted to Gambia|Post > > e-Gathering by >>] > > >ISLAM AND THE WEST > >The bishop and the imam > > ask, Do we >>really have to fight? > >Dec 20th 1990 >From The Economist > > >>print edition > > >Now that pluralism has beaten communism, they >>say, > > the next great battle is between Islam and Christendom: or >>rather > > between the two chunks of the world that have grown out >>of those two > > different ideas of God and man. We therefore >>organised a debate > > between an open-minded Christian cleric and >>an open-minded Muslim one. > > Call them Francis and Mahmoud. The >>reasonable Muslim begins > > > >Mahmoud: It distresses me that so >>many people seem to think the next > > period of history will be a >>fight between your part of the world and > > mine. It is true that >>we live elbow to elbow with each other, all the > > way from the >>Caspian Sea to the western end of the Mediterranean. It > > is also >>true that our elbows have banged painfully together many times > > >>in the past. But almost 2,000 years after the birth of your Jesus, >>and > > more than 1,400 years after the birth of our Muhammed, let >>me start by > > asking whether it really has to happen all over >>again. > >We are both, > > after all, "people of the Book". We both >>believe, along with the Jews, > > in the idea of a single God. We >>also share the idea of individual > > responsibility before God: in >>the words of my Koran, "Each soul draws > > the reward of its acts >>on none but itself." > >These things may sound > > meaningless to >>the many people who these days do not believe in any > > God at >>all. But it is these primal ideas that shape whole cultures, > > >>meaning the way we live. There is a great gap between the way both >>you > > and I live, different though we are, and the tangled life >>of the > > multi-god Hindu culture, or the monochrome life of the >>almost godless > > Confucian culture. Let me remind you that when >>Muhammed went from > > Mecca on his visit to heaven in what you >>call AD621, he paused in > > Jerusalem to kneel in prayer alongside >>Abraham, MosesâEUR"and Jesus. > > That moves me. > >Francis: It >>moves me too. But we have to face the > > facts of history. The >>facts are that we cousins of the Book have > > quarrelled >>frequently, and frightfully. There are no rows like family > > >>rows. Let me remind you, in turn, of the time when the sweaty young >> > > squires of a newly confident western Europe, those yuppies of >>the > > eleventh century, clumped their way to Jerusalem to start >>the sequence > > of slaughter and deception we call the Crusades; >>and of that later > > time in the nineteenth and twentieth >>centuries when a then > > all-powerful Europe swallowed up almost >>the entire Muslim world into > > its various empires. > >Mahmoud: >>And let me recall for you, since each > > of us is remembering the >>times when his own side went too far, the > > Arab army that swept >>through North Africa into Spain and France, hot > > with a new >>religion, in your eighth century (and our first), until > > Charles >>Martel stopped it at Poitiers; the Golden Horde, which > > occupied >>most of what you now call European Russia until a Grand Duke > > of >>Moscow turned it around 610 years ago; and the Turkish thrust into >> > > eastern Europe that was reversed at the gates of Vienna, >>thanks to a > > King of Poland, only 307 years ago. > >Francis: >>Yes, we both have our > > memories. Europe and Islam have not had a >>quiet time together. Their > > fights with each other are one of >>history's most familiar stories. Is > > there any reason to think >>the story is over? > >Mahmoud: Well, there > > is one important >>difference between then and now. > >In most of those > > earlier >>clashes, the side that went on to the offensive was full of > > >>self-confidence, for what we would now call both ideological and > >> > technological reasons; and the defending side was divided and >>weak. > > The splendidly efficient Arab army that carried the >>new-born Crescent > > as far as Poitiers was attacking a Europe >>still in its Dark Ages. The > > Crusaders whose heavy cavalry took >>the Cross back to Jerusalem 350 > > years later marched with a >>Pope's blessing against a temporarily > > disorganised Muslim >>world. The Turks who then pushed the > > counter-attack as far as >>Vienna had the best-organised empire of its > > time, and like your >>empire-builders of the 1900s combined religious > > zeal with >>practical efficiency; and they both faced a fragmented > > >>opposition. > >It does not look like that now. I agree that at the >> > > moment my Islam has more religious enthusiasm than your >>Christendom, > > or ex-Christendom: most of us are still believers, >>most of you are not > > sure whether you believe or not. But the >>rest of the equation does not > > apply. You are still the side >>with crumbs of modern life. Your Europe > > is pulling itself >>together into a new unity; the Muslims, and > > especially the >>Arabs, are still hopelessly divided. > >Francis: I > > accept that >>difference, but I am less than wholly comforted by it, for > > two >>reasons. One is that the Arab world has in this century shown > > >>signs, for the first time in ages, of seriously trying to unite > > >>itself; and if Iraq's Mr Saddam Hussein wins the present >>confrontation > > in the Gulf he may indeed unite a large part of >>it under his > > leadership. > > >Mahmoud: Which I personally think >>would be a > > disaster. Saddam would unite it under the wrong kind >>of political > > system, an ungodly dictatorship, and for the wrong >>purposes, the > > propagation of his own crude ideas about Arab >>power in the modern > > world. But I have to tell youâEUR"and warn >>youâEUR"that many of my > > fellow-Muslims admire him very much. > >> >Francis: Quite. And that leads > > to my second reason for not >>being reassured by your historical > > comparison: you have left >>out probably the most important thing of > > all. > >Most of those >>earlier waves of expansion by Islam into Europe, > > and vice >>versa, were at least partly caused by economics. The Arabs > > who >>burst out of the Arabian desert in the century after Muhammed's > > >>death were moved by religious enthusiasm, but they were also moved >>by > > the fact that there were not enough oases in the desert to >>keep them > > alive. The Golden Horde and the Turks migrated out of >>central Asia for > > similar reasons. Much of the man-power of the >>Crusades consisted of > > the new European landed class's younger >>sons; as the rural economy of > > medieval Europe settled down into >>its new post-Dark-Ages order, these > > young people had nothing >>much to do, and wanted excitement. The > > nineteenth century's >>empire-builders were a bit like that too. > >What > > worries me >>now is that the Muslim world to the south and east of > > Europe >>has too many young men and not enough to feed them on, or keep > > >>them busy with. Only four of the 19 countries with predominantly > >> > Muslim populations between Morocco and IranâEUR"Morocco itself, >> > > Tunisia, Yemen and TurkeyâEUR"have economies growing faster >>than the > > number of mouths they have to feed. In the other 15, >>people are > > getting steadily poorer. In four of those 15, more >>than half the > > population is under the age of 25, in nine more >>than 60%. > >This is > > already producing a flood of economic >>refugees and, if economic misery > > leads to more political >>repression, will produce a flood of political > > refugees too, >>including a lot of angry revolutionaries. That will > > cause >>arguments between Europe, which will say it cannot take so many > > >>refugees, and the governments that want to get rid of them. These > >> > arguments could get mixed up with other things: freedom of >>movement > > between our two parts of the world, Europe's access to >>Arab oil, the > > ambitions of the next generation of Saddam >>Husseins. The wrong sort of > > new Arab leadership will create the >>wrong sort of new Arab > > self-confidence. And all this in a world >>of chemical weapons and > > nuclear missiles. I cannot claim to >>foresee the outcome, but there are > > the makings of trouble here. >> > >Mahmoud: There are indeed. Let us both > > say, even if we >>differ over the details, that we are worried about how > > Islam >>and Europe will get through the next 50 years without a clash. > > >>What can men of good heart on both sides do to limit the danger? > >> > > >Francis: I think that depends on whether we can agree about >>the basic > > nature of the world we shall be inhabiting in the >>twenty-first > > century. If we can, we should then be able to ask >>ourselves how our > > two different traditions, the Christian one >>and the Muslim one, can > > cope with that sort of world. > >The >>past two years, 1989 and 1990, > > have brought a great clearing of >>minds about the way man organises his > > day-to-day life here on >>earth. After the rout of communism, it is > > really no longer >>possible to believe that politics and economics can > > be left >>under the control of a handful of people who claim to "know" > > >>how to run these things. We have returned to individual > > >>responsibility, to the belief that each man carries the burden of >>his > > own life: an idea which, as you say, Muslims and Christians >>share. It > > seems clear to me that in future everybody in the >>world will want > > democracy for the political side of life, and >>the free choice of the > > marketplace as the basis of economic >>life. > >Mahmoud: My picture of > > democracy may be a little >>different from yours, as I shall explain in > > a moment. But in >>general I agree. Indeed, if I may be tactless, I will > > point out >>that my Islam has been much better about communism over the > > >>past 70 years than your Christianity has. Most communist >>governments > > came to power in the Christian part of the world. >>None ever did in the > > Muslim part, unless imposed from outside. >>Some foolish Christians used > > to say that communism was "just >>another Christian heresy". Every > > Muslim saw it for what it was, >>an enemy to both of us. Let that pass, > > however. We agree that, >>in future, people everywhere will with to have > > a much bigger >>say in how their earthly lives are organised. > > > >Francis: Then >>let us go on from there. I claim that the ideas > > Christianity >>introduced into my part of the world are a better basis > > for the >>pursuit of democracy than the ideas produced by Islam. It is > > >>from Christianity, for instance, that we have learnt the essential >> > > idea of separation of church and state. > >This is essential >>because, > > in matters that have to do with God, the absolute >>reigns; things are > > right or wrong, and no voting will make them >>otherwise. But in running > > our day-to-day life on earth, if we >>want to do it the democratic way, > > we must accept that the other >>man's opinion is as good as our own. > > This is the realm of >>relativity, of honest doubt. The two realms are > > separate. >>Christians have been told so from the start. "Render > > therefore >>unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the > > >>things that are God's." The KoranâEUR"forgive meâEUR"has nothing >>like > > that to say to Muslims. On the contrary, you are told that >>any such > > separation is sinfully wrong. > >Mahmoud: It took >>Christians a very > > long time to put that principle properly into >>practice. Your Holy > > Roman Emperors and your Popes of the Middle >>Ages reached many > > convenient political arrangements with each >>other. In general, apart > > from an admirable early experiment by >>the Swiss, it took you 1,600 or > > 1,700 yearsâEUR"longer than >>Islam has yet been in existenceâEUR"before > > you even started to >>develop the democracy for which you say the > > separation of >>church and state is a necessary condition. > >You must > > give us >>time too. In fact, though we have no great phrase to point to > > >>like your quotation from Jesus in the Matthew gospel, most Muslim > >> > countries already practise a rough-and-ready separation between >>the > > business of God and the business of the state. We are >>terribly slow to > > do it in a democratic way; but so were you. > >> >Francis: Yet it goes > > much deeper than the God-state >>separation. The practice of democracy > > requires a special >>attitude towards other people. It is necessary to > > accept, not >>just in the intellect but in the heart, that that other > > being >>out there is as important as you are. He may not be as > > >>good-looking, or as clever, or as well-read in Aristotle or Adam > >> > Smith, but he is as important. This is not something men feel > >> > naturally. It cannot be taught in sociology lessons in school. >>The > > only way of learning it, gradually, is out of the climate >>of ideas in > > which we grow up, the body of thought that shapes >>our lives: our > > "culture", to use that clumsy word. > >I am >>going to press you hard. > > "Love thy neighbour as thyself", said >>the founder of Christianity, > > adding that next to loving God >>this was the most important rule of > > all. I cannot find any >>equivalent in Islam's basic book. The Koran > > says much about the >>love of God; that is excellent, but not > > sufficient. The New >>Testament is full of exhortationsâEUR"the Sermon > > on the Mount >>is one exampleâEUR"to look at our fellow-men with > > respect, and >>without self-assertion. The index of my copy of the Koran > > has >>nothing under "compassion" or "mercy", and only one entry under > > >>"peace" except as a word you say when you meet somebody. There are >> > > some fine verses about patience in Sura 16, and about modesty >>in Sura > > 31, but that is not quite the same thing. > >Without >>plunging into > > theology, I will briefly say what I think lies at >>the root of this. To > > somebody who lives in the Christian world, >>even if he is not himself a > > believer, it seems clear that the >>Christian view of how one man should > > think of another man is >>linked to the Christian idea of a threefold > > God, father, son >>and holy ghost. If you have been told that God > > detached the >>son-part of himself, as it were, to become a human being, > > and >>get crucified, you are liable to start feeling rather more > > >>respectful towards all human beings. Islam, denying the Trinity, > >> > denies itself that opportunity. > >Mahmoud: If I do not take you >>up on > > the Trinity, you will understand it is solely in the >>interest of peace > > and out of compassion for our readers. That >>is not entirely a joke. > > > >Look, let me repeat: you must give >>us time. The New Testament has its > > strong points, including >>what it says about loving your neighbour; so > > does the Koran, >>especially on the wonder of God. But 600 years ago, > > when >>Christianity was roughly as old as Islam is now, the politics of > >> > Christendom was no more admirable than you say the politics of >>Islam > > is now. In your year of grace 1390, Christian Europe was >> > > authoritarian, brutal, had a Pope and an Anti-Pope, and was >>wondering > > whether to have an EleventhâEUR"or was it a >>Thirteenth?âEUR"Crusade. > > Europe's great change for the better >>was still around the corner. > > > >You brought up economics >>earlier in the debate, to score a point > > against me. Let me >>deploy economics now. That great European change > > for the >>better, including the growth of democracy, came about partly > > >>because Europe grew richer. The spread of wealth, and leisure, and >> > > thoughtfulness, helped to liberate the forces of the spirit >>that > > brought about the Renaissance and the Reformation, which >>in turn led > > to the coming of democracy. Those forces of the >>spirit were there, > > waiting; economic growth was no more than >>one key, among others, > > unlocking the door for them; but it >>played its part. I am confident > > that, if the Arab world can get >>its economics straight, a similar door > > can be unlocked for us. >>And, if it is, our democracy may have one or > > two special >>advantages. > >Francis: If you are right, we can breathe > > again: >>what might otherwise have been the chief danger to the peace of > > >>the twenty-first century will have eased. And I accept your point > >> > about the importance of economics. Indeed, I gratefully >>acknowledged > > that the flowering of Europe in the Renaissance >>and the Reformation > > was much helped, economically and >>otherwise, by what Europe imported > > from the Arabs 600 years and >>more ago. We re-learnt from you the > > natural sciences and the >>other things you had learnt from classical > > Greece, but we had >>forgotten during the Dark Ages. That was partly why > > Europe woke >>up again. Thank you. > >But what did you mean when you > > said >>that your version of democracy, if it comes, will be in some ways > >> > better than ours? > >Mahmoud: You have set out what you think >>are the > > advantages of your religion as a foundation for >>democracy. I will now > > set out two advantages I think mine has. >> > >One is that we Muslims are > > better on the race question: >>which will matter a lot in the coming > > century. The Koran is >>clear about it. In the beginning, it says, > > "mankind was but one >>nation"; and then "O mankind! We . . . made you > > into nations >>and tribes, that ye may know each other but not despise > > each >>other." And by and large, if you look around the world, we have > > >>carried the principle into practice fairly well. > >Francis: You >>had > > in East Africa, not all that long ago, a slave trade as >>abominable as > > ours in West Africa. > >Mahmoud: True: we both >>have to admit our > > failures. But on the whole the record of >>Islam in this matter is not > > bad. Muslims do not seem to have >>the race-consciousness that has > > marked so much of the history >>of Christianity since the Roman empire > > went Christian. One of >>Muhammed's last instructions to the Arabs was > > not to treat >>non-Arabs as inferior. This will be relevant, I think, in > > the >>coming century. > >The other advantage may be harder for people in >> > > the modern West to understand, but is even more important in >>the long > > run. I think Islam can point to the danger that lies >>inside the > > triumph of the West, the weakness in its strength. > >> >As you said, the > > birth of democracy and capitalism was made >>possible by removing one > > part of life from the realm of the >>absolute. In the operations of > > pluralism there is no permanent >>right and wrong, no unmistakable good > > and bad. Each man's >>judgment counts as much as the next man's. When a > > majority >>decides something should be done, it is done; if it changes > > its >>mind, it is undone. Whether a field is occupied by sheep or a > > >>computer factory depends on the intricate working out of millions >>of > > individual preferences between roast lamb and printouts. It >>is an > > admirably efficient system, and 1989 and 1990 suggest it >>is what the > > whole world wants; but it is not perfect. > >The >>decisions of the > > majority sometimes produce results that many >>people see as not just > > temporarily inconvenient, but wrong. >>These may be put right later, if > > the majority changes; but >>there is no guarantee that they will be. > > Also, in any system >>based on the working out of individual choices, > > some >>individuals will finish up at the bottom of the pile, perhaps > > >>permanently. The system has no monitor, as it were, nobody watching >>it > > from outside. The more universal the system becomes, the >>more I worry > > about this lack of any guiding set of rules. If >>capitalist democracy > > is the worldwide system of the future, >>many people will begin to feel > > that they live inside a smoothly >>humming but, when you look at it, > > amoral machine. > >Islam, >>which insists that daily life is part of a > > wider >>wholeâEUR"that there are always objective truths to be > > >>honouredâEUR"is a reminder of these imperfections. I do not know > >> > exactly how the imperfections will be put right; but then >>neither did > > anybody know 600 years ago, back in AD1390, exactly >>how the > > Renaissance and the Reformation would come to the >>rescue. Nor am I > > asking you to become Muslims. I merely suggest >>that you address > > yourselves, in your own way, to the unfinished >>business of pluralism. > > > >Francis: As a Christian I agree with >>you, of course; although many > > people in the western world will >>think we are talking nonsense just > > because it is Christmas. How >>marvellous if Islam, which helped to prod > > Christendom awake at >>the end of the Middle Ages, should after all help > > the modern >>West in the shaping of the next few centuries. > > > > >> >_____________________________________________________________ >> >New! > > Unlimited Netscape Internet Service. >Only $9.95 a month >>-- Sign up > > today at http://www.netscape.com/emreg >Act now to >>get a personalized > > email address! > >Netscape. 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