perhaps testimony of a black man don't > >count... > > Are you making an accusation or just trying to goad me yes this is a bit over the top so i apologize for it, I'm sure you meant no such connotation. however, this kind of attitiude has been a huge problem here in australia...experts of all fields wandering round with pens and clipboards getting all manner of 'facts' from aborigines. the results are all too tragically apparent. andrew