actually we not only do not speak of parts of our history, there are parts of history that we just plain rewrite. some of the things you can learn if you dig in the national archives. -----Original Message----- From: Michael H Collis [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:30 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: current events The eugenics program of the Nazi's had its beginning here in the U.S. The Supreme Court made forced sterilization legal and Virginia led the way. The T1 program took it one step further, with state sponsored murder. Of course, we don't dare talk about that part of our history. Do we? -----Original Message----- From: St. John's University Cerebral Palsy List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Cleveland, Kyle E. Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:34 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: current events Last night, the History Channel had a program outlining the German National Socialist (Nazi) eugenics program. Folks like us were either being sterilized our killed outright. The propaganda was that "eugenics" (creating a pure Tuetonic race) was the only way to ensure Germany's survival. Any "cripples", "idiots", etc. were to be done away with for their own good as well as for the good of German society as a whole. German media played this up and the people bought it, silly as it was. Same thing for the "dead-beat dad" syndrome. The media created this "man" and the public and politicians have latched onto it as gospel truth. Sorry for the tangent. BTW, did anyone else see this program? If so, could you believe that 94 year-old Nazi doctor was still spouting this drivel? Incredible! -Kyle -----Original Message----- From: kate [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 6:55 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: current events Kyle I have had a couple of friends over the years who lived on a supporting parents pension + money from their ex husbands. They had a much better time of it than I do. I have always thought it is better to have a job. I tried to encourage my friends to work even if it is just a few hours or one day a week. They could not see the point. I felt they were not teaching their children that work is a good idea. Also met a lady who complained of paying her ex husband a lousy $25 a week in child support (she did not work) and did not want to because she did not want to pay more money!!! I think child support should be paid for children and not be money for the ex partner to muck around with. Kate Subject: Re: current events Ah well, in Ohio, "Tender Years Doctrine" is the standard, meaning that a child under age twelve will remain with Mom at all costs, unless Mom is committed or in jail. I didn't see the advantage in putting Adrienne through the trauma of not seeing her Mom--my options were that 1) she remain the residential parent or 2) I press charges that she had raped her sixteen year old boyfriend in order to have her committed. So, I paid my child support, purchased every stitch of clothes the kid ever wore and bought groceries for her every week. I am upset that the states mandate support, but do nothing to ensure the money is being spent on the child. So, I was paying $550/month in support while Adrienne was in her mom's home. I will now be paying $1100/month for her to attend a private liberal arts college near Philly (actually, the tuition is $26K/yr--she has an academic scholarship for the other $13K). My joy is based that my ex can no longer live off her daughter's child support (and will have to rely on the support from the other fathers whose children she bore). Yes, one can actually live a rather comfortable life living off of one's children. But, I am a man, therefore I am suspect from the beginning, right Trisha? Possibly you don't remember situations that were discussed prior to your timely hiatus from the list? If you are wanting to "pick a fight", let me know now. I will not fight you, nor will I respond to any more of your posts, public or private.