Mr.NOrdam, Even objectivity itself will acccept the objective part of your piece! If criticism is balanced then judgement shouldn't be based on prejudice therefore I AM HAPPY TO SAY that you were FAIR and thats it! Thank you! YEROPULLOH! >From: Asbjørn Nordam <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list ><[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: Misconceptions, Misunderstandings & Clarifications >Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 07:47:36 +0100 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [149.68.45.24] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBE432951008640042A1A95442D180F5816; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 22:51:49 -0800 >Received: from maelstrom.stjohns.edu (149.68.45.24) by >maelstrom.stjohns.edu (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id ><[log in to unmask]>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 1:46:18 -0500 >Received: from MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU by MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU >(LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 216742 for >[log in to unmask]; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 01:46:10 -0500 >Received: from fepF.post.tele.dk (195.41.46.135) by maelstrom.stjohns.edu > (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id ><[log in to unmask]>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 1:45:58 -0500 >Received: from [195.249.18.88] by fepF.post.tele.dk (InterMail >vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id ><20020225064459.EPUW8024.fepF.post.tele.dk@[195.249.18.88]> for ><[log in to unmask]>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 07:44:59 +0100 >From [log in to unmask] Sun, 24 Feb 2002 22:52:57 -0800 >User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 >Message-ID: <[log in to unmask]> >Sender: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list ><[log in to unmask]> >In-Reply-To: <000001c1b711$c474cac0$91beb5d4@l5e0q5> > >Mr. Gassama, >you express my long time sentiments, when it comes to debate in The Gambia, >or on the Gambia-L. And I could not have said it better than you do. > >A year ago I asked why is it, that some people on the list praise and >support each other, and express that those, who are not for are against. >Why >is it that in debates some have a tendency to force each other to the point >of no return to a win-or-loose-situation. We must agree that we donīt see >everything the same way around, and then what ? Why this wish for calling >it >all black or white. Things are not always black or white, letīs try and >compromise sometimes, or just accept that we donīt agree. > >I also by coincident met people I only knew from the Gambia-L and that was >really thrilling and a very good experience. > >Let me try in my poor english to give an impression, and risk an eye, how >I, >when it comes to the Gambia or gambian issues, am not only for or against. > >I have travelled since 78 to the Gambia and I like/love the country and >most >of the people I meet. I want to see the country developed, the faster the >better. Like I try and learn and understand the people, history and >tradition, I also try to understand different kinds of problem, from the >ones inside a family, a compound, a village, up to the national and >international ones. > >I accept if the people has got enough, they try to get rid of their >leaders, hopefully by ballot and not by a military take over as in The >Gambia. But now itīs been like that, I can not change that situation, so I >look forward and I do hope for the best. As in the Jawara days I did not >see >every thing black or white, itīs the same how I see the present president >and government. > > When I pay visits to The Gambia I am glad that there are so many >progresses >going on. Just to mention a few: >I am happy that the country a few years back got a TV-station, to inform, >educate the people, to give a platform for gambian culture. But at the same >time I could criticise the lack of thorough journalism on politics, >national and local, like as a state-medium it should act more balanced. >And even you have a state-supported news-station itīs important to >accept/protect other private radio-stations, news-magazines etc. rights to >also broadcast news. > >I am happy that there are so many schools build all over the country and >old >schools are renovated and more classrooms added. The numbers of students >they are forced to take in at the Gambia College has increased dramatically >over the past few years. They are stressed to the outmost out there at the >college, but that is good. >At the same time I am critical to the jobsituation for the teachers, the >lack of materials in the educational system from top to bottom, but I see >it as a step in the right direction. The same with the university >programmes. I can find many things to criticise in those programmes but >again itīs a step, and you must as a poor country with limited resources >take it step by step. > >Iīm glad that the government has given free education a higher priority, by >letting the girls education be free. Hopefully it will soon also be free >for >the boys. I have often said itīs too expensive for an ordinary family to >send their children into school. Many of my friends can not afford the high >costs. > >I like the "fight" with the infra structure, to build more roads, bridges >and maybe also ferries. Get water and electricity supply up all over, and >better the sanitary. The priority could be otherwise but I find it OK. >And I have noticed that there is a plan to make The Gambia the gateway to >Westafrica both in producing, transport, technology etc. I wait impatient >to >see it started and running. > >I like to see the struggle to find a way to be self-sufficient on >food-production. I should like it to have a higher priority and based more >on co-operatives , but again I do see many progress. >But I certainly look for more job-intensive fabrics, so many families could >earn a living, when a person could get a job in that sector. Donīt wait for >the private sector, combine it with the state-enterprise. > >I like to see building of clinics and hospitals, even I at the same time >find the lack of fundamental resources of medicine alarming. Last time in >the Gambia I had to take two of my friends from clinic to clinic to get >them >the best treatment against malaria, one friend nearly died. > >I blame the authorities and organisations, that there is a trend to ask >for >high academic degrees in jobs which could easily be handled by gambians >educated in the gambia. When I read some of the job-descriptions when >advertising for applicants, I think itīs crazy to offer such a salary on an >university-degree candidate for a simple job as advisor, cashier, etc. > >I find it OK that the president and his party take some credit for many of >these progresses, but I donīt like that he/they campaign as if those parts >of the country, which are critical to him/the party should face >destiny/fortune/revenge and not get the same progresses. > >And although I like the speed of all this I fear for the state budget and >the tax-burden. Those who is going to pay for the progresses is the gambian >people itself. And I should like the ordinary gambians to understand how >"politics" are like. Those infrastructures are not god-given, gifts from >president/APRC, but from themselves to themselves. That the state-budget is >just a big-scale of a family-budget. There has to be income balanced with >expenditures. And there are different political solutions to such >development and progresses. In my opinion many politicians in the country >fail to teach their supporters the differences between the different >parties. It often ends up to be mostly a personal question, a man to man >election, and not an election on principals. That is what I think fails in >the political tradition, but I do hope this is also just a step forward. > >What I donīt like is the way the "control" of the country is build up. I >have said it many times - I donīt like the road stops, the intimidation and >harassment one can see daily in the streets practised by some men in >uniform. To me they behave badly and not disciplined. >I donīt like the reports of torture we from time to time gets from people >and media. To me there is no excuse to torture other people. No mater if >itīs in Denmark, USA, Chile, Balkan, The Gambia. >And itīs embarrassing because The Gambia host the African center of human >rights. Which on the other hand I think we should be proud of. > >In my opinion it is the police, who should take care of daily law and >order, >criminal acts of any kind, traffic, custom and boarder control. Not >military >or paramilitary nor NIA. The military should not be seen in the streets. >They live their life in the barracks and are trained in combat, to protect >The Gambia and itīs people from outside, and if possible serve >internationally in peacekeeping forces, f.in. in Africa. I think there is >great need to form an african peace-keeping force to solve conflicts inside >Africa, And The Gambia could certainly take a position here. (Like small >Denmark do in UN-peacekeeping forces all over) The national guard could be >a >special trained force of elite-soldiers, but they should behave very very >disciplined. >The NIA should certainly concentrate itīs activities on states-enemies, but >under political control. And I certainly donīt like the reports of people >tortured under the authorities (NIA, Police, military) custody, even I know >you can find the same here in the west. Like I criticise it here I want to >do it out there. > >People in uniform seen in the streets should only be policemen. If a >military is on his way to/from job and he is wearing a uniform, he should >wear it correctly. I have seen too many men wearing a uniform in disorder. >If a man employed in the army is on duty f.in. around the celebration of >the >re-election of the president, I expect those men to behave very, very >orderly. Not dancing around, not cheering and saluting if not ordered. If >those who ran around that day and night were not on duty, they should not >wear uniform. In civilian clothes they could as their neighbour celebrate >that victory. > >I also think that the legal system could be transformed a bit and the >reputation of the courts established to a higher level of independence. A >clear distinction between the three powers. >You find the european system practised in the courts, even you have another >african system, which I think could run together with the "imported" one. >There is an african tradition that conflict are handled locally, where many >people are involved. If one has done something to another person it >involves >in your traditional system the families on both sides to find a solution. >Many people come up with their idea of solution, and later on you find the >one which is accepted. Some sort of local tribunal. In our system you only >involve the persons who are directly involved, witnesses. Later the >court/the judge enforce his/the laws sentence on you. I think that in small >offences you could try and involve local tribunals, and let the courts only >step in when itīs more serious. You spend too much time in courts to get >too >little out of it. And many of your judges are not gambians but from >outside. >They donīt know of the gambian society and they will judge out of that >limited knowledge. > >I certainly donīt like the political system. The british/american system >where the winner takes it all, is a very special form of democracy, which >in >my opinion leads to tendencies of small "wars", very partisan campaigns, >when the election is coming up. The seats in a parliament should reflect >the >total numbers of voters cast on the different parties nationwide. Then you >can have constituencies to ensure that the parliament-members also come >from >and represent different parts of a country. This is a general opinion of >mine and has nothing specific to do with The Gambia. > >But I am critical towards some of the parties donīt work on the political >issues or agenda between elections. Nor do they try and give next >generation >of leaders in the party a platform, which leads to lack of successors when >the old guard leaves the stage light. That a party boycott parliament >elections and give away the daily platform for political speeches, the >chance to speak up in the parliament, that is one thing I really donīt >understand. But that is maybe because Iīm ignorant. I certainly donīt like >the buying of voters cards, or the tradition of giving gifts to your >supposed supporters after winning. If you have rice to distribute then give >it to the people in need, and not to those who you think were your >dedicated >supporters. > >I donīt know the president personally, and I will not judge him as a >person. >But what I should like to see is more of a FATHER-figure. He is the >president for all gambians, the whole of The Gambia, and he should behave >like that. Even he is out of a party and has a specific political platform >and program to take out. I will not say that you all should love or like >him, but he should in my opinion try and act more to win respect from all. >And he should also try and talk to our hearts. You could see he was happy >the day the result came in and he was re-elected and he took a short ride >out of the residence. Why should he just few days later threat people in >public jobs, that if they have not voted for him, they were not able to be >loyal and serve him and the state, and should fear for their jobs ? >Why not use his authority to solve the situation after the april-incident, >instead of putting forward the indemnity-act, which should serve all >involved in crimes. I think he should take the reports and declare that >something ran out of order, someone failed his duties and dismiss those in >charge that day. Get it over with. And then let the boys who are now laying >suffering at RV get the treatment and operations needed no matter where and >what it costs be it in America, Russia, Egypt. And compensate the families. >Let the student leader return and rest. To risk something, to risk your >arm, >that is a step towards reconciliation. >And if the state has nothing important in the Dumo-trial, get it over with. >Let the men free instead of playing a game that first one then the other >prosecutor is ill. Get forward, try and do something. The truth and the >compensation will always be disputed no matter what solution. So if I was >the president I should try and get forward without that millstone round my >neck. >History will tell and judge, so no matter what he does there will be some >who said he stood behind all this. I donīt see it as weakness or acceptance >of any guilt to try and get forward. Thatīs how "cool and cruel" politics >is >and as I say, history will judge by the end. > >Like he is trying to do something towards former president Jawara. Try and >get the old man back to a pensioners life in the Gambia. The old man is >Gambian history no matter what you all think he did well or not so well or >badly. He is your first president after independence, a vet who became your >president. He belongs to your history and I think that President Jammeh do >the right thing, get the man home under certain conditions. >The President is taking a risk here. He really risk an arm. The man he >forced out of office, he now try and get backk home. I want him to behave >with the same courage on the DUMO case and the april incident. > >What I like is the priority he seems to give the women, in society, in >public jobs, in politics. And many women love him for that attitude. And I >think that is a good strategy. Itīs seen here in the west to become the >best >strategy to development, support the women out there. > >As a toubab from the rich west, I would like Jammeh to balance his >well-placed critics towards "the west" with a more compromising attitude >realizing that we are not all evil, new colonialists, some want to help and >certainly itīs not us alone to dictate the conditions for the help. Be >sceptic YES, but understand that we are many people out here, who want to >put pressure on our leaders when it comes to helping developing and poor >countries. And we must form a strategic alliance. We donīt want to take >control. > >But generally the tax-payers here in Denmark want to see that the money >they >pay, is given to people in need. If possible people up here would go and >hand the money over directly to the women in the african villages. That is >the control we want, and reports that the money is well spend, or we have >to >do better. We also want to tell the leaders in certain countries which >produce a long trail of refugees, that there must be a reason why many >people wants to leave their homes to ensure life, and we ask such a >government/leadership to look very critical into the reasons and try to do >better, IF our taxpayers money should go and help building infrastructure >in >such a country. Itīs not that we want to dictate what kind of democracy a >country should have or we only want to support an opposition, but try and >ask why so many of your citizens flee. > >I would like the president to try and understand such arguments. He could >direct so much taxpaid money from the west if he really wanted and without >compromising on principles. Instead itīs poor people in Poland or Ukraine >he >ask for help, and we here in western Europe run several development >programmes in both Poland and Ukraine. Itīs not logic. > >Iīm positive to the presidents vision that he maybe could get success being >some kind of a mediator in african conflicts, and maybe also get support >for >his ideas of renewing the OAU-vision. If he get success he will set a new >standard of leadership. But I think he is balancing on the line which can >lead to a fine leader, but it can also turn out that we will only remember >him as a tyrant. Itīs a difficult balance, and history will judge him. I >think that if he plays his cards well, show he is a human being who cares, >also for those who are maybe not full hearted behind him he can be liked if >not loved by many gambians. > >This is how I personally see some of the things in The Gambia. Not always >black and white, positive and negative. In some perspectives I am for the >President and APRC, like I for some reasons also are very critical >towards >the politics he and APRC stands for. I should like to see him turn more as >a father-figure for the country instead of using his whip so much and give >fine presents some places, he should rule fair, as the father of all >gambians, also for the 35 % percent who preferred another person to lead >the >country. If he is not careful I think he can easily turn into a tyrant. > >In politics my sympathy is always with the people, and because I grow up as >a student and took my political standards in the 60īties Iīm still more >for >PDOIS than for UDP, sorry - but again this is not black and white. > >I will stop here, as usual it became too long, but me heart is always in >The >Gambia, and I like the Gambia-L to get information, to learn from the >debates, to form my opinion on what to think and do. Keep up all of you. >Copenhagen february 18.th >Asbjørn Nordam > > > > > >on 16/02/02 18:38, MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA at [log in to unmask] wrote: > > > Hi! > > As the political beliefs and positions of the various individuals that >have > > not taken an "everything or nothing" view with regard to the government >in The > > Gambia are very diverse, I think it is misleading to attribute blanket > > statements to them. Statements have been made during the past few days >that > > are generally attributed to those who do not belong to the "everything >or > > nothing" group and these statements do not in the least represent my >position. > > I can keep quiet and be guilty by association, or I can offer >clarification > > with regard to the various misconceptions. > ><<//\\>>//\\<<//\\>>//\\<<//\\>>//\\<<//\\>>//\\<<//\\>> > >To view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface >at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html >To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: >[log in to unmask] > ><<//\\>>//\\<<//\\>>//\\<<//\\>>//\\<<//\\>>//\\<<//\\>> "YEROMAMA PULORI GALO HAAWA BAROGEL N'DIMOU" "Speak the speeches and let the speeches not spit you." _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. <<//\\>>//\\<<//\\>>//\\<<//\\>>//\\<<//\\>>//\\<<//\\>> To view archives of postings, go to the Gambia-L Web interface at: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/gambia-l.html To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to: [log in to unmask] <<//\\>>//\\<<//\\>>//\\<<//\\>>//\\<<//\\>>//\\<<//\\>>