<<There is a very simple test to determine if a person is proselytizing to you or attempting to teach you about objective scientific truth: statements made by proselytizers cannot be verified by empirical observation. Scientists sometimes disagree about which theory best explains the empirical evidence,>> It seems to me I remember from research classes I have had that empirical evidence is strictly facts, as in: of the X number of people in our trials y% of people experienced/exhibited/reported the variable we were looking for. It does not provide causality, only probability. Granted, these were research classes for the psychological sciences, but I would hope that the other sciences would not presume to make such conclusions without some way of "proving" causality. We were also taught that theories could not be "proved" only disproved or refined. If this is not true, someone please show me the empirical evidence (hehe) Jane