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GAMBIA-L  January 2004

GAMBIA-L January 2004

Subject:

Re: [>-<] Re: INFORMATION FROM AFFECTED/Jabou.

From:

Jabou Joh <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

The Gambia and related-issues mailing list <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:24:38 EST

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (284 lines)

Essa,

I will defend your right as well as the right of every Gambian to have their
voice heard, and I will stand by that simply because we are fighting for
democracy and not represseion and only in protecting the rights of all, even those
who have sided with the enemies of the people can we secure our own. In this
light, I think you are free to let the Gambian people know that you do
recognize that the regime you were serving was a tyrannical one that engages in a lot
of illegal activity, some of which you have begun to detail here, and that
those who were or are serving them were well aware of this fact and had just
looked the other way. If such persons have information  that may be helpful in
our fight against tyranny and now watn to offer it in sincerety, this si a
simple process.
I will also stand by my earlier statement that your offer to coordinate the
gathering of information from victims of tyranny by any organization or
individual does not have to be conducted under clandestine circumstances, and I will
further add now that infact, your coordination of this process by the
solicitation of information from victims of the regime is not necessary and that  the
metood you have suggested does give the impression of lack of transparency
whether intended or not.

 There are numerous ways that victims of this regime are getting their story
out of that country despite the heavy hand on them. Journalists are relaying
them and the testament to that is the various forms of harassment they are
subject to for reporting the news like it is. Individual Gambians are sending out
information and the APRC regime cannot stop this from happening unless they
shut down all forms of communication in and out of the country.

If you want to help reveal the atrocities of this regime which you have been
a part of, and whatever the motivation, whether personal or due to an eventual
 realization that they are the enemies of the people and not their
protectors, the way to accomplish this is not to solicit Gambians to send information to
unknown sources which is a dangerous proposal regardlesss of the stated
intentions and reasons. I believe that having been part and parcel of the APRC
machinery, and having served in an ambassadorial capacity, there are no doubt a
lot of information that you can provide if you choose to, and it would then be
up to courts of law to determine the value of such information when the time
comes.
In this light, may I suggest that you offer to render any valuable
information along with documentation that you can provide, and if this is the case, you
can be directed to people who can collect this information. This method, in
addition to the fact that you have implied in your writings that there are
certain international financial regulatory agencies that you can provide with
useful information about apparently illegal activities of the regime, should be
quite sufficient.
At any rate, my opinion is that  having people send information to the
sources you have suggested in the manner suggested should not be acceptable by any
means.

Sincerely stated.
Jabou Joh

In a message dated 1/18/04 8:11:39 PM Central Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
> Jabou,
>          I would really not want to sound like someone trying to lure people
> to put themselves in things that are not transparent.The purpose of my
> message be it the latest or  the former was to help but not to involve
> anyone.Infact our latest exchanges are about to make it look like the soul purpose of
> that message was for gathering information for a particular congressman or
> woman.Not at all! The words law makers were reference that would show that some
> of them are interested in trying to familiarise themselves on certain issues
> period.That is why it was categorically stated that people can choose to do so
> or drop it.
> No one is engaged on things that are not transparent in this case.Infact the
> reason why this route was chosen is because there are people who do not like
> sending messages on the L openly.Maybe it is the way the message was
> understood or the way I sent in here...but the purpose is not to lure people towards
> holes or operations that are not transparent. I can only share with people
> methods that the other side suggested using. They would be more than happy to
> recieve this information in the open too.Covert operation are usually not
> that bad when it comes to protecting the identity of informers.
> For RADDHO i chose to do so because the people that gave me the information
> work within that milieu and they felt free doing that.
> The other party ie.that wants to step in and dessiminate information to
> congressmen may as well just subscribe on the L and the post and then gather what
> they want  from there,period.Therefore please I am NOT a person that will
> openly declare covert operations if I were to do so on line.The reason why I
> refered to the UN was just to show you another justification.Am currently
> working with a senator's office but believe me not all their operations are made
> public.So here we can as well choose to avoid a debate on this and treat the
> subject as something that we want to use to help people rather than making
> others feel that they are not transparent or genuine.
> So the choice of sending or keeping information rests on the shoulders of
> the affected parties not me.
> Allah has different ways of helping people even if Essa or a congressman is
> out of it.
> Essa.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> >>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Essa,
>>
>> Thanks but I think you miss my point. If there is any organization or U.S
>> Congressional office soliciting or gathering information of this nature to
>> pass on to a law making body here, this will not be a covert operation at all
>> because it is public information. Even if a third party was receiving the
>> information to pass on to the Cogressman's office, they would also not be
>> something hidden and should be able to provide their information freely to the
>> general public so that they will feel comfortable and know that they are a
>> legitimate operation.
>> I would never want to collect information from people and then send it on
>> to any entity that is not transparent  and the process is not done in an open
>> manner, especially if they say they are connected to a congressional office
>> that is supposed to be passing information to a law making body in the U.S.
>> Such an operation I would  assume would have the full backing of the U.S
>> gov't or at least be something allowable under its' guidelines that a
>> Congressman's office would operate under  and those sending them information would
>> have no need to hide their identity.
>> This place is no Banana Republic and the U.S Constitution still works when
>> it comes to things like these where public officials such as Congressmen are
>> public servants and very much answearable to the people.
>> On your part too, I think it will be in your best interest to provide the
>> information i mentioned regarding this set up simply for the sake of
>> legitimacy.
>> Any information gathering apparatus for the offices of Congressmen/women is
>> by and large sent to their offices through the normal channels and where
>> this information is collected by someone else, say a non-profit organization
>> working in the field of human rights, e.g Amnesty International, they clearly
>> identify themselves and give their full contact details. ! An example is
>> this RHADDO whose website you gave. They  are not based in the U.S, but did
>> not hesitate to identify themselves as people who report to the U.N
>> organization on economic and human rights, and they gave their full coordinates. A
>> process liek this has to be transparent so that people know they are not
>> sending information to a black hole or to the wrong people.
>> I hope this clarifies where I am coming from.
>> As far as sharing information with the Gambian public, I commend this and
>> believe that the best venues for anyone who has  genuine information that is
>> valuable to the struggle to rid ourselves of tyranny and wants to sincerely
>> share it with the people, is through the two lists that are accessed by all,
>> including some representatives of foreign governments I believe.
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jabou Joh
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/18/04 12:57:56 PM Central Standard Time,
>> [log in to unmask] writes:
>>
>>
>> >>>
>>> Jabou,
>>>         Without doubts I fully concur with what you said regarding people
>>> being comfortable to send their names,adresses etc to these
>>> emails.However,these people wanted to avoid exactitude in order not be exposed to the side
>>> being "scrutinised"-I think you understand what mean.The UN has tracked
>>> some phone calls etc and those details were possible because of covert
>>> operations that took place before.There are other options Jabou let say we share
>>> the information between us and then you receive the complaints yourself and
>>> then forward them to these people/me.I can give you the actual names and
>>> adresses of these offcials provided that you will keep them private(laugh).
>>> I have been informed by Elhadj Mustafa, that you are a good person i will
>>> talk to you.
>>> Do you believe that Demba has your phone numbers?(laugh).
>>>
>>> Essa.
>>>
>>> Jabou Joh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> In a message dated 1/18/04 3:30:38 AM Central Standard Time,
>>> [log in to unmask] writes:
>>> >
>>> > Hello Readers,
>>> > Any party ie,person,family,community back home that has
>>> > some compliants that they wish to share with some policy analysts or law
>>> > makers in the states or Europe can forward such information to the
>>> following
>>> > emails which will be directed to a program that is being handled by a
>>> > particular congressman's bureau in the US. A branch of that bureau is
>>> interested in
>>> > receiving such stuff, in trying to understand how some people are
>>> affected back
>>> > home.
>>> > [log in to unmask]
>>> > [log in to unmask]
>>> >
>>> >
>>> Essa,
>>>
>>> Can you tell us exactly who these people are and which Congressman's
>>> bureau
>>> this is? Such things are deemed public information here in the U.S,
>>> especially
>>> in a situation like t! his, and knowing who they are and which policy
>>> making
>>> bodies they will give this information to will allow people to contact
>>> these
>>> sources and make enquiries to feel comfortable, as well as to find out
>>> exactly how
>>> this information and what they are doing can eventually effect the
>>> situation
>>> back home.
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> Jabou Joh
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to:
>>> http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/CGI/wa.exe?S1=gambia-l
>>> To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
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>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>> Think before you sink!
>>> "Pessimists see difficulty in every opportunity and optimists see an
>>> opportunity in every challenge"
>>> "Suits cannot be made wi! thout scissors and niddles,so decent minds
>>> disagree to agree"
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------
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>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to:
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>>> To contact the List Management, please send an e-mail to:
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>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Think before you sink!
> "Pessimists see difficulty in every opportunity and optimists see an
> opportunity in every challenge"
> "Suits cannot be made without scissors and niddles,so decent minds disagree
> to agree"
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To Search in the Gambia-L archives, go to: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/CGI/wa.exe?S1=gambia-l
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