Hi Chris and all,
Speaking of MS office, and how documents can work on a Mac, I talked 
with Cal Carson, the leading mac expert in southeastern Michigan, (he's 
on the internet adviser talk show, and takes calls from Mac users, it's 
on wjr radio), he told me, that pages will work with .txt, .rtf, .doc, 
and .docs formats, and he said numbers will work with excel spread sheets.
Pages comes installed on new Macs, in their Iworks suite.
Harry
On 5/24/2014 12:07 PM, Christopher J Chaltain wrote:
> I haven't ever used a Mac, although I seriously did consider getting 
> one a few years ago. I've used either Windows or Linux, and as Albert 
> points out, this has been driven by my employers more than my own 
> preference.
>
> I can't say I've never had lock ups on Windows, but I haven't 
> experienced nearly as many problems as Harry has. I think Harry is 
> pretty good about routine system maintenance, but that's the only 
> thing I can think of that might explain my relative lack of issues 
> with Windows and lock ups.
>
> I'd also suggest installing NVDA along side JAWS and setting up both 
> NVDA and Narrator to start with some hot keys. This way you'll have 
> some potentially different speech options to get you out of trouble 
> when you have any issues with JAWS. This is one of the great things 
> with Linux; if I have trouble with Orca, I can resort to Speakup or 
> Emacspeak to get me out of trouble.
>
> I'm not sure I agree that OSX and Linux have always been more stable 
> than Windows. I've used various versions of Unix and distributions of 
> Linix, and I've seen my share of issues with the Linux kernel. This is 
> only anecdotal, and I haven't researched any studies on which OS is 
> more stable based on any impartial metrics. As a blind user, it's also 
> hard to separate instabilities in the kernel from instabilities in the 
> desktop interface and screen reader. BTW, OSX is not based on Linux. 
> It's kernel is based on BSD and Unix.
>
> I think the problem with MS Office access on Apple platforms is more 
> complicated than just Microsoft's unwillingness to write to Apple's 
> accessibility guidelines. I'm sure Microsoft wants to add some value 
> to it's offering on Apple and not limit it's interface look and feel, 
> which might make it look more like Apple's office suite products. I'm 
> sure they also want to have as much common code between the versions 
> they offer on different platforms as possible, as well as make it as 
> easy as possible for Office users to move from platform to platform.
>
> Furthermore, Microsoft and Apple are direct competitors when it comes 
> to operating systems, office suites and more, so it isn't surprising 
> that Apple isn't going to enhance it's screen reader or accessibility 
> infrastructure to support competitor's products or that Microsoft will 
> make accessibility of it's products on competitors platforms a 
> priority, just as Apple products on Windows have their accessibility 
> issues. I think this is one of the issues that creeps in when an 
> operating system or application maker also gets into the screen reader 
> business. It's great for blind people who want everything from one 
> vendor, but it puts us on an island when we want to work in a 
> heterogeneous environment.
>
> I think the issue here isn't how well you can use MS Office on the Mac 
> but rather what are your other office options on the Mac and how 
> accessible are they compared to MS Office? In other words, how do 
> Pages, Numbers and Keynote compare to MS Office, in functionality, 
> portability and accessibility?
>
> I hope none of this is considered flaming. I tried hard to make it 
> balanced and be honest about my biases and experience. It's hard to 
> weigh into these discussions since users of any system can feel 
> challenged by any perceived criticism of the platform they've spent so 
> much time deciding to use and then becoming proficient with it.
>
> On 5/24/2014 9:49 AM, Albert Ruel wrote:
>> I use a PC because my employer does, and I purchased my own computer 
>> in 2006.
>>
>> Thx, Albert
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On May 24, 2014, at 12:07 AM, David Chittenden 
>>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> OSX is based on Linux. Linux is, and has always been much more 
>>> stable than Windows.
>>>
>>> VoiceOver is built-in to OSX. It almost always remains on. On the 
>>> rare occasions when it dies, pressing command f5 will toggle it off 
>>> and on. Also, because VO is built-in, blind Mac users are able to 
>>> install OSX from scratch.
>>>
>>> Don't get me wrong, OSX has access difficulties, especially with 
>>> Office because Microsoft refuses to follow Apple's well-published 
>>> accessibility guidelines, and Apple does not create special exceptions.
>>>
>>> It has been argued that VO is not scriptable like Jaws. This is, in 
>>> point of fact, incorrect. VO is part of the Mac operating system. 
>>> Therefore, it can be manipulated using Apple Scripts. However, for 
>>> stability, Apple has set up in VO controls the ability to block 
>>> scripts from effecting VO. This way, it is possible to protect VO 
>>> from being negatively impacted by Apple Scripts.
>>>
>>> All that said, the fact is, learning VoiceOver on the Mac takes 
>>> significant time because many of the concepts are different. The 
>>> fact also is, it took just as much time to initially learn Windows. 
>>> I know because I have taught blind people how to use Windows, and it 
>>> takes weeks.
>>>
>>> In my case, it took two weeks, and considerable extreme frustration, 
>>> to learn the basics.
>>>
>>> I purchased my MacBook Air 11" in September, 2011. I retired my 
>>> Windows machine a week later, thereby forcing myself to learn Mac, 
>>> and only Mac. Given Apple's commitment to accessibility, and 
>>> Microsoft's not-so-strong commitment to accessibility, I am now 
>>> firmly and proudly an Apple fanboy. I drunk the Apple Coolaide, and 
>>> feel sorry for those poor, deluded blind people who still believe 
>>> Microsoft is the best option. Let the flames commence.
>>>
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On 24 May 2014, at 18:29, harry brown <[log in to unmask]> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> Well folks, I'm using a Gateway windows 7 laptop, running windows 
>>>> 7, and jaws 12.
>>>> Well, here's the latest.
>>>> I have read all the comments, and I was going to stay with windows.
>>>> I did, get a new hard drive installed on the laptop, and that 
>>>> helps, not nearly as many lockups and freeze ups.
>>>> However, about 20 minutes ago, I was on the internet, and looking 
>>>> up ham radios of different kinds, and reading reviews on eham.net.
>>>> I clicked on a review for a radio, and, you guessed it, a lockup 
>>>> and freeze up and no speech.
>>>> So, I had to do what many windows users have to do, and that was? 
>>>> You guessed it, a hard shut down, which is not healthy for 
>>>> computers, but as you all know, we have to do this once in a while.
>>>> Anyway, I did the hard shut down, and then turned the laptop back 
>>>> on, and it took minutes to start up, and I'm finally back on.
>>>> My question is for you Mac users. Do you have this kind of problem, 
>>>> with lockups and freeze ups with no speech?
>>>> This is just wasting my time, fighting with this computer.
>>>> If Macs don't have these problems, I'm switching over.
>>>> One Mac user here in town told me, "Harry, I don't have that many 
>>>> lockups and freeze ups, and if it does lock up, at least I still 
>>>> have my speech.
>>>> So, Mac users, let me hear from you, ok?
>>>> All I know is, after using windows for all these years, 15 years, 
>>>> since 1998), the lockup freeze up, lose speech stuff is getting old.
>>>> take care,
>>>> Harry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
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>>>
>>>     VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
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>>
>>      VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
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>


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