I would agree with you Christopher and add only one point. If our
expectations can't rely, and be placed, upon the law, why bother to
pass any laws?
If the law says get it done, then it is done or it is illegal.


On 3/18/11, Christopher Chaltain <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I agree I could bee missing your points, but based on your note below, I
> do have a few thoughts.
>
> I guess I just don't agree with your first point. I don't see the modern
> trend in accessibility to litigate. I see an awful lot of activity going
> on which involves no litigation. Also, given the lack of accessibility
> that I run into in a daily basis and given the society we live in where
> litigation is so prevalent, I'm surprised there isn't more litigation or
> that more litigation isn't justified. How much litigation is acceptable
> to you? I don't agree with every law suit that's been brought forward,
> but I don't see the numbers as staggering, and for most part, I think
> they've been reasonable, justified and for the long term good of the blind.
>
> To be honest with you, I really don't get your second point, and I don't
> see how it relates to this topic in the first place. Are you saying that
> because you had it tough when you were a student, we should make it
> tough for modern day students by letting a company like Google violate
> the law? You don't think there are better ways to make students more
> self reliant? Also, what about the teachers and employees of small
> businesses who may lose their jobs because they have to use Google Apps?
> Have you tried to use Google Apps? It isn't a matter of just figuring
> out ways around the accessibility hurdles to do your job, it's a matter
> of just simply not being able to use the applications or some of the
> features in the different applications at all. There's a difference
> between having to work for what you need and it just being denied to you
> in the first place where no amount of effort is going to change that.
>
> For my part, I don't agree with you, and I don't think we're going to
> change each others point of views. BTW, I actually think we may agree
> more than we disagree, but I think we set the bar in a different place.
> I'm OK with just agreeing to disagree and moving on.
>
> On 17/03/11 10:04, Mike Pietruk wrote:
>> Christopher and others
>>
>> Several of you have missed the points I am trying to make.
>>
>> (1)  The modern trend in accessability seems to threaten and litigate
>> rather than seek workable solutions.  The reasons for this include that
>> this garners publicity and also because it is being done by other people's
>> money.  Some things may require litigation but this should be a last
>> resort and only for truly significant and lasting things.
>>
>> (2)  When I am talking about students, one of the lessons they need to
>> learn in school is how to become self-sufficient and self-reliant for, in
>> the private sector workplace, they will need those skills to survive and
>> succeed.  With the current system of agencies coddling and shepherding
>> them through the academic system, you can get them their certificates and
>> degrees; but you are giving them a very sugar-coated view of the real work
>> world.  When I was in school in the 1960s and early 70s, I was told that
>> things would always be rough and tough for me and, if I wanted to make it,
>> I needed to be better than everyone else.  I needed, in other words, to
>> strive for excellence first and foremost and learn the skills of knowing
>> how to deal with people to survive in the classroom and otherwise.
>> I had no one to turn to beyond high school for problem solving other than
>> my own innovation, the innovation of those I dealt with daily, and the
>> occasional comparing of notes from other blind students.  For our younger
>> list readers, this was prior to the era l
>> of the internet and online exchanges.
>>
>> Yes, I am glad for today's generation of blind students that they have
>> better opportunities to share and compare notes and experiences.  Yes, I
>> am glad that they have better tools at their disposal to make the academic
>> experience less stressful.  But I cannot help but wonder if their
>> expectations now center not on their own talents and abilities but upon
>> technology, rehab people, and the law.
>>
>> Think about the individuals you look up to and use as role models.  They
>> are, almost always, those that struck out on their own and succeeded and
>> exceeded expectations.  They improvised working around issues and
>> problems.  They relied on themselves first.  I cannot help and wonder if
>> today's approach is snuffing out this kind of mentality.
>> If it is, and this is my fear,
>> then we are doing this generation of blind students a major disservice
>> even when we think we are making life easier for them in the classroom.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not
>> seen.
>> And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who
>> comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those
>> who seek
>> Him.
>> --Hebrews 11:1,6 (NASB)
>
> --
> Christopher (CJ)
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
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