On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, James Crocker wrote:

> On 07/15/98 10:35:40 Todd wrote:
>
> >In short, there is something highly questionable about adducing
> >the Samburu as evidence of the safety of beef but not using them
> >as evidence of the safety of (raw) milk.  Or again, we cite the
> >Okinawans as evidence of the benefits of pork but neglect to cite
> >them as evidence of the safety of rice.
> >
> >Todd Moody
> >[log in to unmask]
> >
>
> In my readings (can't remember where) I learned that the milk in that african tribe was
> fermented.  The fermentation process breaks down the proteins in the milk, as well as the
> lactose sugars, I believe.

I'm not so sure about this.  My understanding is that
fermentation is the process in which microorganisms digest the
sugars, but the proteins should be essentially unaffected.  The
protein content of yogurt is not less than that of whole milk.

> The foreign proteins are the main culprit to our health, if I understand Ray's Neanderthin book
> correctly.

Yes, and that certainly is the argument against milk, since
Neanderthin is not an anti-fat book.  The mlk sugar is an issue
only for those who don't make the lactase enzyme as adults.

> Therefore, drinking fermented milk in africa is not a good comparison to drinking non-fermented
> milk in the US.

Well, Ray didn't mention the fermentation, but in any case I
don't believe that affects the protein content significantly.

> Also, if we have made any adaptation to milk it would be from drinking non-pasteurized milk,
> which possibly contains enzymes that make it easier to digest.  By destroying the enzymes and
> keeping the milk un-fermented I believe it is more difficult to digest.  People who are "lactose
> intolerant" (i.e. normal) can comsume much more acidopholous milk or yogurt than ordinary milk
> without ill effects.

I agree that the pasteurization of milk is a different matter,
probably making the stuff harder to deal with.  But Neanderthin
doesn't say that only *pasteurized* milk should be avoided; it
forbids all dairy products of any sort.  The Samburu are not
Neanderthin-compliant.

My point was a logical one: If the Samburu are evidence of the
safety of eating a lot of beef (which was the original point),
why aren't they also evidence of the safety of drinking a lot of
unpasteurized and possibly fermented milk?  Likewise, if the
Okinawans are evidence of the safety of eating fat and pork, why
aren't they also evidence of the safety of eating rice?

None of this is intended as an argument for drinking pasteurized
milk.  I do note, however, that milk *fat* is one of the only
dietary sources of conjugated linoleic acid, which helps to
prevent atherosclerosis.  But you don't have to drink pasteurized
milk to get it.

> Obviously there are northern Europeans who have maintained the lactase enzyme in their
> intestines from infancy, so there is some adaptation.  Does anyone have further information
> about this adaptation?

It's another example of neoteny.

> Being of northern european descent (and enjoying milk) I would like to
> know if I would experience less damage from the milk proteins, which I have no trouble
> digesting, than other people.

Having lactase in itself would not protect you from the milk
proteins, but it is an open question how dangerous they really
are.  Some people find that consumption of dairy proteins causes
them to secrete more mucus, but this is by no means universal.  I
have this reaction myself, but not for goat or lamb cheese.

Todd Moody
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