On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 19:44:22 -0500, Irene <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>> The most profitable food is the expensive mass-produced meat.
>
>How,exactly, do you figure this? How is meat so profitable?When I think of
>profit-heavy food, I think of breakfast cereals and snack foods which are
>basically a few pennies worth of grain, salt/sugar and chemicals processed
>into a package costing several $$$$$$$$. You're telling us the profit
>margin on meat is better than that?

Depends on which profit you count. With ready made packed or convenience
food (like cornflakes or snacks), most of the pay goes to the food
industries. But cereals needn't be made to cornflakes and meat not to
hamburgers, of course.

For farmers it's very different. Base products like grains/soy have such low
prices, that farmers hardly survive without subvention.
Because they have to compete with vast landscapes all over the world
producing such stuff. In low quality.
So many farmers do what's called "Veredelungswirtschaft" here
("refinement"?). Means they are keeping animals (cows, pigs,turkey) in a
house and feeding them the low cost low quality mass fedder.
That is (or was, before BSE) more profitable than producing plants.

>> Beef fat actually kills millions of people, as far as it is involved in
>>CHD diseases.
>
>Can you supply some references for this please? ...
>I have not seen anything which convinces me of that. Do you perhaps have
>some papers I haven't read?

Beef fat is in many aspects the lowest quality and least paleo fat you could
find, second only to industry modified (hydrogenated) fat.
The most striking difference for paleo-minded people is the low part of
polyunsaturated fat and the bad omega6 to omega3 ratio in it. Not to speak
of the fat-soluble environment toxins (like pesticides) which accumulate in
it.
What this causes, you can read in the "omega/prostaglandin" related
literature. Heart problems are only one of the hazards included.
Why beef fat is especially bad in this aspect I'd like to reference Udo
Erasmus "Fats that heal,Fats that kill" on page 255ff.
I abstain from referencing all the studies which make a connection of SFA or
cholesterol to CHD and cancer. Because i think the reason is not exactely
the cholesterol and SFA, but the PUFA and omega3/6 involved in the animal
fats tested. However, the studies IMO find the right culprit, it's industry
animal fat.

As in western countries 1/3 of all people die of CHD, that's literally many
millions. I wrote: "as far as it is involved in CHD", and I think it *is*.
Even if you attribute only a small part of this disease to the wrong fat
nutrition, the casualities count is overwhelming, compared to 100 human BSE
cases so far. Ridicilous to fear BSE, compared to the fat.

>I *have* on the other hand, seen medical references that list 'a
>high-carbohydrate diet' as the top cause of elevated triglyceride levels.
>Must be all that high-carb beef fat doing people in.

As I told, I see a connection of conventional (non paleo) meat consumption
to consumption of bad style carbohydrates.
However low-carb / beef-fat eaters still would encounter the PUFA problem.
Of course there are no studies on them, as few such people exist.
And such studies IMO would at first show a significant healt improvement,
due to the benefit of overcomeing the diabetes related diseases.

>> Does this Kellog insist on Cornflakes, or are barley sprouts ok?
>
>Nope, gotta be all processed and packaged. As Ray said:
><<Kellogg began the modern marketing of foods in the 1880s. ...

Cornflakes make me shudder.
Barley sprouts taste delicious to me (3-4 cm long).

Ray:
> Several of his
>books are available in whole text on the Net.  I think you would find much
>to agree with in these.
(really?)

Irene:
>Dr Kellogg promoted consumption of a high grain diet as part of a more
>hygienic lifestyle. Look into some of his writings for what he considered
>'hygienic.' Not how I'd want to live.

Could you supply the link to such a Kellog book like you mean?
I'd try a little reading.

Richard wrote on my:
>> If I were McDonalds or from the Meat Farmers Organization, then I would
>>be thinking about sponsoring and promoting your book, really.

> This is ridiculous, Amadeus. McDonalds is as far from paleo ...

Far from paleo, I think so too, Richard.
But still some would buy a BigMac and eat it "without the bun", because
it was so much "bang for the buck".
I read this words here on the list.

Cheers, Amadeus S.